Knee Deep in the Passenger Seat

Knee Deep in Punicillin, Part 2 feat. Guest Dr. Thalia McCann aka @supplementhal

• Cady & Sharilyn • Season 1 • Episode 9

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In this episode, we finish our crucial conversation with Dr. Thalia McCann, an infectious disease specialist, about the power of trust and communication—especially for queer patients navigating the medical system. We unpack the impact of anti-science propaganda on public health and why effective science communication is more important than ever.

But that’s not all—we also discuss an exciting new project aimed at educating the public about healthcare and supplements, the representation of women and marginalized communities in both medicine and literature, and the need for strong, well-rounded female characters. And because we can’t resist a little fun, we wrap up with a lighthearted chat about cryptids and some of our favorite (and most cringe-worthy) literary tropes.

Join us for an episode full of insights, laughs, and just a little bit of Bigfoot talk. 🎙️✨

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Cady Moore (00:00)
Welcome to Knee Deep in the Passenger Seat, our gay-DHD podcast where we talk about sex, dating, non-monogamy, queer culture, and literally whatever the fuck we want. My name is Cady and I'm a queer, neuro-spicy, hyperbolist, asex-certified sexuality educator and snake-milf. I love fantasy novels, playing Stardew Valley, and making podcasts with my husband's girlfriend, who is usually right here with me, but just started a new semester. So I'm recording this introduction solo today.

My girl Sharilyn is a queer polyamorous student of social work, poet, photography, makeup artist and overall amazing human. Truly one of my favorites. Also funny as hell, as you know, if you listen to this podcast together, we are here to bring you the type of stream of consciousness chaos that can only come from two neuro spicy besties given a mic and some power. So today buckle up because we are diving into part two of our interview with Dr. Thalia McCann.

and infectious disease specialist with a doctorate in pharmacy. She is a subject matter expert and is co-chair of the Vaccine System Pharmacy and Therapeutics Committee. She is a pharmacy lead and she works in outpatient anti-microbial stewardship. She is passionate about anti-microbial stewardship, women's and LGBTQIA plus intersectional healthcare and using science and health communication to dismantle anti-science propaganda. She loves to backpack, hike.

and to tie people up for fun, either her fun or theirs. If you haven't listened to part one of this interview, go back and do it. Okay, did you do it? Be back? Ready for part two? Amazing. Buckle up. Get ready for our conversation about the importance of trust and communication in healthcare, the impact of anti-science propaganda on public health, the need for effective psych-com, misinformation and false advertising and supplements.

And naturally, which cryptids we would choose as our lovers with Dr. Thalia McCann.

Cady Moore (02:19)
welcome back everybody.

So before we transition into talking about Sci comm my favorite topic, can you tell us a little bit Thal on how healthcare providers can improve trust and communication with their queer patients, especially when it comes to infectious disease prevention and treatment?

thalia mccann (02:38)
Absolutely. I have.

I'm gonna like all caps this without blasting my microphone, but representation fucking matters. And then I wanna follow that up with just like a quick trust fucking women and listen to them. So those are like my top two just like passionate points on this, but I think that, I think that it's really interesting thing that we have really improved representation of

Cady Moore (02:53)
Mmm.

Yeah.

thalia mccann (03:10)
women, but I still find that there is a lack of representation of trans folks, of openly queer folks. I think that there's still a long ways to go on the minority gap that we are having in healthcare sciences, specifically within certain specialties and within medicine itself.

I think that all of these efforts to curb DE &I, where we're literally erasing the work and like bios of people that are identifying even just as cis women, you know, let alone like trans folks or queer folks, is so damaging. Like you are not going to, you are not going to win hearts and minds of any marginalized population if it looks like the Aryan

like force when you walk into a clinic. I also think that we have to recognize a long legacy of philosophy-based science in the West that is informed by fucked up, patriarchal, hegemonic, sexist, racist, capitalist, mumbo jumbo by a bunch of

literally like old school fucking people like with penises that knew nothing like Aristotle and Pluto and they're talking about this like dogmata of evolution and man and even Darwin when he's talking about evolution and he's trying to draw comparisons between human and what he's seeing you know in birds and whatever it is so problematic

Cady Moore (04:37)
White dudes.

thalia mccann (04:59)
I believe it's Carlos Linnaeus, the head of phylogeny, which is like, you know, phylogenetic trees, which is sort of like the way that we organize evolution. He literally abducted women from West Africa and said that they were like lesbian because of their genitals and because they were so masculine looking. Like we have a problem. We need to acknowledge that. We need to take ownership for that and we need to pay

reparations for that. We have done such shady shit as a country and in healthcare that it is no wonder that people think that any of these conspiracy theories could be true.

Cady Moore (05:45)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (05:47)
And I also think that I actually went to ID week in 2021. And it's really fascinating. I got to see Dr. Fauci speak. And he was in a panel with a few other people that their whole thing was looking at where we went wrong in science communication. Because we have just lost so much leeway with the public in terms of trusting in science.

Cady Moore (06:13)
Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (06:14)
first and foremost, which they couldn't really tackle, is that there's an organized movement to make people less educated, more susceptible to government control, and disempowered, and frail, right? And there's a huge anti-science movement because institutions are recognizing that the system as it currently exists, that's highly exploitative, where, you know, like,

Cady Moore (06:23)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (06:42)
corporations are pumping out processed foods, science for ages has been like, guys, like this is bad, we need to change it. And they're like, you know what? Trusting in science is bad for business. So I think dismantling that is a bigger project, but within science, we can make sure that we're owning that, that we're figuring out ways to keep that message out so people understand it. And I think also,

Cady Moore (06:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (07:10)
having groups that are independent of any federal systems is going to become increasingly important because I don't think anyone can trust research that's coming out of Trump's government now, right? Like you can't have a grant for research approved if your abstract includes any words that suggest that you're studying human beings with a gender, you know?

Cady Moore (07:18)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and that's

something like, I think we're also talking about the literal erasure of the existence of particular populations. So like we're talking about improving trust with their patients and it's like, well, let's start with the basics. Let's start with your healthcare provider owning up to the fact that the American medical system is built on bullshit and we continue to see how that pans out. Sorry, I like *blip blip*.

thalia mccann (07:43)
Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right, absolutely.

No, so real, but like, we don't talk about it. Like, you don't, I graduated from arguably one of the best pharmacy programs in the country. Did they ever bring up that like, some of these central tenants are deeply problematic? And that like, the politics around women's bodies being like a certain way,

driving an entire industry. People with, people with, yes, yes. People with uteruses being like an entire battleground right now for like governmental control. Like they don't talk about it. And I understand why. Right. Totally.

Cady Moore (08:33)
Mm-hmm, BMI being made up. I mean, not made up, but like made up.

And an enigma, and an enigma for no fucking reason. Like

why is my nurse practitioner who has a uterus asking me the same questions every time I see her about my recurring BV? And I'm like, yeah, girl, I don't wear tight leggings anymore. Why can't you come up with something new? Oh right, because you have literally not been taught anything about this because women's health doesn't matter.

thalia mccann (09:08)
Yes.

Yeah, I mean, so I started the first women's health focused pharmacology group at UCSF One didn't exist. I was in a class one day and no shade, Cady, you're gonna just, you're gonna have feelings about this girl. One of my classmates,

had to do a practicum that included counseling on appropriate birth control. And one of the sections was just explaining to someone how to correctly use a condom. And this student couldn't explain how to safely use a condom. Like, had memorized the package insert for a combination birth control pill. Couldn't tell you how to use a condom. And I was like,

Cady Moore (09:55)
But could it, but could it, ugh.

thalia mccann (10:01)
this exactly and I was like we need to do something about that yeah we need to do something different and there was no content about how to respectfully and appropriately educate people that were having sex as like two people with vulvas because there's this whole mythology that you can't contract STIs because we just we just kiss

Cady Moore (10:02)
Sex Ed for Doctors is my next project once I'm not burnt out.

thalia mccann (10:26)
and lay out by the seaside and stroke each other's hair. There's just no risk because all of the STI and whatever education that is geared to the queer community is so fixated on queer men and penises and that whole vibe. so

Cady Moore (10:29)
and yearn for each other.

Penises.

Sharilyn Wester (10:44)
Yeah, typically, queer men. Yeah.

Cady Moore (10:47)
So one of the biggest misconceptions out there is that if there is no penis involved, there's no risk. But let's be real here, STIs don't care about your gender and they don't care who you're sleeping with. Skin to skin contact of any kind, fluids, shared toys, all of it can transmit infections like HPV, herpes, chlamydia, syphilis, even HIV. When it comes to testing, queer women in particular are often left out of the conversation because doctors don't always offer full panel STI screenings.

and many of them just assume we don't need them because heteronormativity. So when you do get tested, ask your doctor about what's being included and don't be afraid to push back if they're leaving out STIs like HIV and HSV, which often don't get included because of how allegedly rare it is for women who are having sex with women to get HIV and because of just how common HSV is. Similarly, one of the most common STIs among queer women is HPV or the human papilloma virus.

This virus spreads through skin to skin contact, meaning fingers, mouths, toys, you name it. And the kicker is that most people with the cervix aren't routinely tested unless there's an abnormal pap smear. So a lot of folks are carrying it without even knowing. Some strains of HPV clear up on their own, but others can lead to genital warts or even cervical, throat, and anal cancers. And often when folks push back about getting tested for HPV, they're told that everybody has it, so it's not really a big deal.

The good news is that the HPV vaccine, Gardasil, exists and it is an absolute game changer because it protects against the strains of HPV that are most likely to cause cancer and warts. And it's recommended for anyone, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, up to age 45. Previously, they had told us that we had to stop getting it at 26. That is silly and just outdated information. So if you haven't gotten it yet, it's worth asking your doctor about.

And the bottom line here is that queer sex is hot, it's fun, it's spicy, and it is just as worthy of sexual health care as anybody else's sex. So get tested, use protection, have fun, and now back to the chaos that is this podcast.

thalia mccann (13:01)
anyways, I think that actually empowering doctors to know things that are

important to patients like that in this community would go a long way. And I'll tell you, it's a battleground even within my clinic. Thankfully, some of the boomers are fucking retiring, but it's a project to educate them to not be polarizing. And we've had patients who are like, I want to come into clinic, but if I have to see this provider, I can't, I'm not going to do it. And then they're.

unable to refill meds for like months until they can see someone that isn't going to make them feel horrible.

Cady Moore (13:39)
and isn't gonna ignore their pronouns even though they're right there on their chart.

Sharilyn Wester (13:40)
Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (13:45)
Lord.

Sharilyn Wester (13:46)
Yeah, and I was gonna say, like I know, obviously, like on a clinical level, when you are working with these people, there's a lot you can do individually to not only respect those things, but to educate them. How in your field in general, are you able to work to combat a lot of the anti-science propaganda or the discriminating propaganda that's out there, especially, obviously, now we're going into a new administration that's...

thalia mccann (13:57)
Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (14:13)
buckling down really heavily on this, but how does that work within your field on an individual level or managing or working within these organizations?

thalia mccann (14:23)
So, well, okay, I am in charge of making decisions about vaccinating a large portion of the state of Colorado. And so,

Sharilyn Wester (14:33)
Hell

yeah! In good hands!

thalia mccann (14:34)
One of the biggest

Cady Moore (14:34)
Yeah, she is.

thalia mccann (14:37)
things really has been interacting and kind of interfacing with like a large contingent of our populace that are poorly educated about vaccinations and need accommodations to figure out how to make that happen. And I think that there's unfortunately like there's a few different modes here, right? Like there are some providers that are like,

well, if they're anti-science and they don't believe in vaccines, then they're gonna get one to them. And I'm like, it's not gonna be the rich, like, NB liberal person in Boulder that has a private healthcare provider that comes and gives them like IV vitamins every Tuesday. Like, they're gonna be fine if they get whatever. It's gonna be anyone that they interact with that's like houseless, that is immunocompromised.

Cady Moore (15:08)
Fuck

Sharilyn Wester (15:17)
Yeah!

thalia mccann (15:32)
Like we're fighting a fight. So if they want to separate their infant's immunizations so that they're coming in every two months to get one instead of getting a combination because they think it overloads the immune system because they don't understand what an immune system is, that is their choice. You can disagree with it, but it is more important that we facilitate that than we die on our moral hill here.

Cady Moore (15:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sharilyn Wester (15:58)
Right.

thalia mccann (15:59)
Every vaccine is a fucking win right now. so providing education to people where this is a loaded topic and they truly do not trust you is an art that I actually think that we are woefully underprepared for. And that's something that I have had to navigate. When I was in the acute care side and I was working in acute care in pediatrics, sometimes kids would come in and we'd realize that they have

Cady Moore (16:02)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (16:29)
diseases that make them way higher risk if they contract something like the flu or RSV or any number of things, right? And so convincing and explaining to parents like, hey, if you take your kid to Disneyland right now, there's a non-negligible chance that they're gonna come out with measles and that can cause encephalitis and they will never be the same. Like they could have permanent neurological damage.

they could die. So what's more important? Like I'm pretty sure that your kid that is, you know, like already very sick has issues. Like, could you just do this thing? Like, do you think it's worth it? Or would you rather have them live inside for the rest of their life? Like, what is more important to you? And we can go through like every ingredient that goes inside this thing and I can prove to you that there's no mercury. I can prove to you that there's no 5G.

Cady Moore (17:24)
Mmm.

thalia mccann (17:27)
You know and like like and and honestly I have won more hearts and minds, but you have to sit there you have to be like They're gonna come at you. They're gonna offend you they're gonna suggest that you have no idea because you don't know enough and there are so so few people who are gonna give time for that because they have an Entire ward of people that they have to see so they're gonna just walk away and so

Sharilyn Wester (17:28)
Yeah.

Cady Moore (17:43)
Mm hmm. Yep. You're a government plant.

Sharilyn Wester (17:43)
or you're being paid by so and so.

thalia mccann (17:56)
I think one of the best things that I've learned is like shut the fuck up and just like listen like just Interesting like keep going like tell me everything that you know about that. Show me where you're finding that information Let's just have it out and I'm gonna maintain respect for you even if you don't have it for me and then at a point right like You recognize when somebody isn't gonna budge and you're just like gonna escalate with them and you walk away you save the fight for a different day, but That's something that I do

Cady Moore (18:02)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (18:23)
Yeah, for a different person who might

actually be receptive to that energy, I'm sure. Yeah.

thalia mccann (18:25)
Often. Yes. But if you're just

like, well, like they gave me any pushback, screw them, they're an anti-vaxxer, blah, blah, Darwinism, which we've already discussed is problematic, then like, that's not really gonna work. That's not actually doing the thing that we are set out to do. So that's one way. And then I think the other thing is I actually advocate on behalf of my patients to providers often. So if the provider meets with somebody,

Sharilyn Wester (18:34)
Yeah.

Cady Moore (18:38)
You

thalia mccann (18:55)
And then they tell the person, like, you're doing this. We're treating this. And then I meet with the patient and they're like, I don't want to do this. Like, I don't want to be sick. Like, if I end up having a 2 % chance that this gets activated in like 10 years, but what it means is that I can't breastfeed my baby and I need to be on an antibiotic for nine months right now when I just got done being nine months pregnant and I'm like trying to get a job.

I'm not gonna do this. Coming back and telling a provider, this patient isn't gonna do it. You can prescribe it. They might take it for a week. I don't think we're gonna get them to the finish line. Is there something that we can do? Could we have a plan in place to reach back out to them? Could I call them every six months and just be like, hey, I'm just checking in to see how you are. We don't need to do it today. I just wanna make sure everything's okay. Or like,

they prescribe this thing that they can't breastfeed with, is there another option? So I do some of that and I just think like we talked about like just there's a lot of like big patronizing energy in medicine. Like, well, I'm the doctor so I know better than you.

Cady Moore (19:56)
Mm-hmm.

Sharilyn Wester (19:57)
Right.

Cady Moore (20:06)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sharilyn Wester (20:10)
Well, and I'm

sure coming up with an adaptive care plan for anyone who's part of a marginalized community and trying to explain core concepts about like life circumstances or cultural circumstances that they may not understand that may apply to someone who is queer, who's like, I don't want to be on this because I'm worried about getting yeast infections and I want to have sex with my partner or like, or even, you know, for, for those who are born female who, like you said, want to breastfeed.

thalia mccann (20:18)
Yeah. Right.

Cady Moore (20:29)
Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (20:30)
Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (20:35)
I know from my personal experience, breastfeeding education across the board with any doctors was just like null and void. Having to come up with these adaptive care plans when doctors don't have the base knowledge of like Cady says, sex education. And for you, a lot of other life circumstances that come with their own body ecosystem that intersects with their life is, that's a lot of advocating you're having to do.

thalia mccann (20:35)
Yeah.

Cady Moore (20:41)
Gnarly.

thalia mccann (20:42)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Right. And like, what does it mean if we give someone a drug that makes them sick every day when they're severely underweight and they're having protein, calorie malnutrition? Like our first step should be getting them on insurer and like making sure that they don't have food insecurity. And then we can like tackle some of the other big fish, but like, like just like, let's back it up a second, you know? And so I think that that's, that's just something that I see a lot of. And I try to really think about it big picture and really like meet the person where they're actually at.

Sharilyn Wester (21:11)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cady Moore (21:31)
Mmm.

Sharilyn Wester (21:32)
Yeah, absolutely. No, thank you for sharing that. I think for me, like within the field that I've been like, I don't think we've talked about it a ton on the pod, but I'm studying to become a social worker. But one of the areas of social work that has been really appealing to me that I would actually like to explore a little bit is being a medical social worker. And a lot of what that involves is working with marginalized communities or working with folks who are in hospital or who are getting treatment who like

might need food vouchers for that kind of thing, might need to be handheld to get into a WIC program so they have access to food, so they don't have food insecurity, so they can get their treatments or whatever. And so I feel like having someone honestly

thalia mccann (22:02)
Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (22:14)
like, I'm not going to be the doctor there who's advocating for them, who's going to have the letters behind my name to be respected, but knowing that there's someone like you out there who will do that and who will.

thalia mccann (22:17)
Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (22:25)
team up with these people in order to get this just makes me feel so much better about going into that field and exploring that field. So thank you for doing that.

thalia mccann (22:32)
Totally. my god, our social workers are incredible. We have a social worker that does prep coordination and their whole thing is they get like.

Sharilyn Wester (22:38)
Yes, yes.

Cady Moore (22:39)
Mm.

thalia mccann (22:41)
food stamps and bus passes and whatever it is. Yeah, and I mean, yeah, she's

Sharilyn Wester (22:41)
I've. Yep. Bus passes and all of that. Yep. Oh, I love that.

thalia mccann (22:47)
one of my favorite humans. So I'm so excited. It's a cool field. Yeah.

Cady Moore (22:50)
Ugh, Sharilyn,

you would be so fucking good at that. Like, so good.

thalia mccann (22:54)
Yes.

Sharilyn Wester (22:55)
I love managing and organizing and all of that.

And so I feel like that is something that we're working within. Yeah, with I think like families within like, know, peds you know, really sick kids who deal with these, you know, like infectious diseases or, you know, immune issues and they can't afford to stay, you know, I don't know if you guys do it here, the Ronald McDonald's children's or like Ronald McDonald's houses that like sponsor families, gotcha. Stuff like that. Like I think.

thalia mccann (23:04)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (23:22)
I think there's just, it's so much bigger than just for social workers or for sex educators or people in ID. It's a fully cerebral experience within these people's lives. And I think one thing that you've touched on and some of the other people that we've had touched on is the lack of integration that some medical providers, like we've talked about, have with these people's lives.

thalia mccann (23:44)
Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (23:46)
to really help treat them in their full capacity within their lives. So I just love

hearing about how you're advocating for people and you're going to bat for them against insurance companies, like someone who might have a language barrier or socioeconomic or education barriers who they don't understand what they're fighting for with these people, but they have someone like you who, I mean, like you said, from...

thalia mccann (23:53)
Yes. Yeah. Impossible. Yeah.

Cady Moore (24:00)
Welcome, insurance companies.

Sharilyn Wester (24:13)
know, a background where you've been in a socioeconomically challenged place. Like, you understand what that means to these people. And that just like makes my heart so happy. I just love you so much.

thalia mccann (24:16)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Totally, yeah, and I mean, and that's

how you get, I love you so much. I'm gonna cry.

Cady Moore (24:27)
This

is so cute!

thalia mccann (24:30)
Trust, right? Like you show up and you're like, I'm exhausted and I'm sick. And somebody goes like, okay, I got your back. Like, I'm not gonna pour things down your throat. let's talk about making a decision together. Yeah. Right.

Cady Moore (24:31)
Mm-hmm.

Sharilyn Wester (24:39)
Yes.

Cady Moore (24:41)
Yeah, well, and I'm not here to like spout a bunch of things that you don't understand. Like,

because there also, think that that's something and I can't remember. I think we took a question out or I had a question that I ended up taking out about like how we communicate with people in order to make things just digestible because so much of the information we get, it's like, I mean, I don't know about y'all, but sometimes my brain just straight up stops listening.

thalia mccann (25:03)
Great.

Cady Moore (25:10)
and shuts down because I'm like, this is already over my head and I am overwhelmed and I'm tired and burnt out. So you know what? Mm hmm. Not and smile and take my meds home and go, okay, I guess I'll just figure it out. So like speaking a language that folks can understand and explaining and this, you know, this goes into health communication and how we communicate about health information to people in a way that it makes sense, because if they don't understand it, why the fuck would they trust it?

thalia mccann (25:10)
Gone. Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (25:22)
Now what? Yeah.

thalia mccann (25:23)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Right, totally. like, it is challenging because like I'm not an auditory learner, but I'm often providing a lot of like auditory instruction to someone if I can't get them to come in. like, there's so many communities in Colorado that are medically underserved because we have like a Denver Metro and then there's just a bunch of people that are in the mountains and when it snows, like they're stuck there. So hopefully they have internet and we can chat on the.

Cady Moore (25:47)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (26:07)
like lying, but other than that, it's just via telephone. And so I'm like, hey, yeah, that pill, the one that's the yellow one, you know, like trying to go through this whole thing. Exactly. yeah. Right. Like, so you're trying to really like talk through very complicated things, explain to people like why they're doing the thing. Had a patient today who was like,

Cady Moore (26:14)
The yellow oblong.

Sharilyn Wester (26:14)
Yeah.

Cady Moore (26:18)
Sorry, not oblong, oval. It's oval shaped. Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (26:22)
You

In layman's terms,

yeah.

thalia mccann (26:32)
You

know you're the first person who's explained like why I got this infection from my transplanted organ?

And I was like, maybe I am not, but maybe it's the first time that it made sense to him. And that's the same thing. If you think about it.

Cady Moore (26:47)
Yeah, yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (26:47)
Yes.

Cady Moore (26:50)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Well,

that brings it all full circle back to how we are educating MDs, how we are educating doctors. It's not just about bedside manner. It is also about straight up communication and education and how you teach people about their bodies because doctors are not just treating. They are also educators now because we have cut education funding.

thalia mccann (26:56)
Yep. Yeah.

Cady Moore (27:21)
Okay, it's time for another break. LOL. Yeah, I was gonna say, let's take a break.

thalia mccann (27:22)
Okay. I'm going to take one this time.

Cady Moore (27:39)
Thal has some Instagram vengeance that she needs to share that is anti-science propaganda that she needs to combat. Thal, please tell us how can we help you fight this?

thalia mccann (27:49)
Okay,

thank you. just gotta get this off my chest. Okay, so like you know when you're like, you were so close and I see what you did there and it's I'm gonna ruin it for you. So I'm doing that right now again. everybody's like Trump sent this thing saying that you're whatever gender you were when you were an embryo and so he's

Cady Moore (27:54)
You

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (28:09)
first female president whatever. First of all,

That's not how that works. think there's there's, that's not how that fucking works. There's a, again, this problematic dogma where back in the day, like some guy in the 70s was like, when I look at this developing embryo, I don't see a wiener. So that's a woman in there. There's a there's that's a, you know, biological woman. And

Sharilyn Wester (28:18)
Not how that works.

thalia mccann (28:40)
that's not we know better. Okay, so there's a delicate dance. It's not like you just if you don't have an on switch, you just stay women and that like, a female is the base, right? I think that that actually that thinking comes from again, this like really problematic, like historical perspective that women are less evolved than men. And so what we've actually determined is that you actually have to like turn some stuff off and turn some stuff on.

Cady Moore (29:01)
Mmm.

thalia mccann (29:07)
And that delicate coordination of like, you have the like potential for either tract, right? And so you have to turn like anti-mullerian hormone on and you also have to have androgenic response in order to go down the biologically male pathway. And then you actually have to have like a mullerian response and then this other hormonal peptide called like Coop.

FT3 that they've discovered that is required for you to actually develop the external genital anatomy of biological females. And there are an inordinate number of bodies out there that didn't have this delicate dance of all the knobs that went any certain way and are considered intersex and have been altered at birth. And so actually

Cady Moore (30:00)
Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (30:03)
He isn't the first female president because that's not how that works, but there's going to be an extremely higher number if he's saying that like, I think he wrote a new law in saying that like children have to be protected from hormonal therapy and surgical therapy that are related to gender care. And so the number of individuals that are intersex that are going to be intersex.

Cady Moore (30:28)
Intersex?

thalia mccann (30:30)
are going to actually be much higher than we've seen because unfortunately, the dogma in medical history was that if someone was intersex, they were defaulted to becoming, you know, genitally mutilated to look more female. And so I love what we did there, but you're not quite right, guys. Anyways, yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (30:55)
Yeah

Cady Moore (30:56)
it. I

love this for how it's going to make him feel and science is important.

thalia mccann (31:03)
right? Yeah. And women aren't just like this baseline like or like female anatomy aka you know, Trump's America women are not like some basic like Honda Civic that you like judge up with testosterone to get a penis you know like that's not how that works. Like you don't like add chrome and like like a gun and titty sticker on the back to become a dude.

Sharilyn Wester (31:05)
real science.

slap a

Cady Moore (31:23)
was gonna say

turn it into a CRV.

Sharilyn Wester (31:32)
TINNERS!

Cady Moore (31:33)
Yeah, dudes, guns and shooters. okay, thank you. Thank you so much. I wanted to make sure that you had a platform to, yeah, absolutely. That's this is for, what we're here for. So, speaking of breaking through anti-science propaganda and politics, you have a new project that is a baby.

thalia mccann (31:35)
Dude!

Anyways, anyways, I need a moment about it. don't think it.

Sharilyn Wester (31:46)
Speak your truth.

Do it. That's what this is for.

Cady Moore (32:02)
It's more than a sparkle in your eye. Can you please tell us a little bit more about that project?

thalia mccann (32:06)
Yes,

I've been thinking about this for a really long time and I have decided that educating patients in my clinic and colloquially clapping back at people on the internet is insufficient for the amount of rage I currently feel. so, yeah, we need an outlet. And so one of the biggest things that I think that I encounter

Sharilyn Wester (32:23)
Absolutely. We need an outlet.

Cady Moore (32:24)
my god, so fair.

thalia mccann (32:32)
on a personal level, just as like a pet project, then also in, know, besides just science miscommunication, is also we have these like fat obsessions with supplements and different medications that are often like wildly misinformed. And so, you know, in the spirit of helping people be better equipped consumers of this very problematic healthcare system, I want to provide...

Cady Moore (32:43)
Mmm.

thalia mccann (32:59)
SciComm and like public education. So I'm starting something called Supplemental because Thal is my nickname that all my friends in Sacramento use. Yes, I needed it. And so yeah, I'm really excited about it. It's going to be hopefully mostly science with less excipients. That's that's a far-fetched idea.

Cady Moore (33:04)
I love it so I love a pun. And you love a pun.

Sharilyn Wester (33:05)
Yeah!

Cady Moore (33:18)
I love it so much. So are you

Sharilyn Wester (33:19)
I love this.

Cady Moore (33:22)
going to specifically be like, not exposing, but exposing like supplements, the specific supplements and being like, yes, this works or no, this doesn't work. Here are the facts behind it. fuck yeah. Wait, I love this so much. I love this so much, especially because, yes.

thalia mccann (33:34)
Yep.

Yeah. Yes. And I'm going to talk about vaccines. I'm going to talk about

endemic bullshit. Like we've got like some avian flu stuff happening. You've got tuberculosis outbreaks happening. And one of the things that's really interesting is that I actually am going to try some of these things myself. Like if I can determine that there's like third party things that are actually medically safe and like report back, be like, she tried it folks. I am the average American woman. Like I am

Cady Moore (33:47)
Cool, yeah.

Cool!

Sharilyn Wester (33:56)
Yes.

thalia mccann (34:07)
the size of an average American woman I you know I'm like Miss Wonderbread over here so yeah I mean so I feel like it's

Cady Moore (34:12)
You're burnt out at the same degree.

Sharilyn Wester (34:16)
You happen to be hotter than like most people, like we just won't.

Cady Moore (34:19)
Yeah, I was

gonna say, I don't know that average is how I would describe you.

Sharilyn Wester (34:20)
Yeah, you the drugs don't care.

thalia mccann (34:24)
But I

think that it's interesting because like we've talked about like that this demographic, queer people, women that are not like, you know, whatever, are so underrepresented in so many medical trials and studies and a lot of things are specifically marketed to men. Things are marketed specifically to women that are the same thing that are marketed to men that have a pink tax. Like it's way protein baby. You can get you can get a GMC without it being in a pink pack. So

Sharilyn Wester (34:33)
Yes.

Cady Moore (34:37)
Mm-hmm.

Yup, Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (34:52)
Right.

Cady Moore (34:53)
Yeah.

thalia mccann (34:54)
Anyways, I'm just gonna...

Cady Moore (34:54)
Yeah. I love this, especially because I like as a sex educator, I come across so many supplements all the time that are marketed specifically to women to like, I, and I, this was a free thing that was given to me by this. So I'm like, not going to talk too much shit, but it was literally like called WAP. Like it was, it was supposed to make your pussy wet. I'm like, that's not how this fucking works. Like

thalia mccann (35:02)
Yes.

You

Cady Moore (35:19)
You're not just gonna take a supplement and have a wet pussy that night. Like, that's not how any of this works. Why are you giving this like, yeah, yeah, and it's.

Sharilyn Wester (35:25)
Even like celebrity endorsed ones. Yeah, like the Lemmy

ones by like Courtney Kardashian. That's like

thalia mccann (35:32)
Okay, so

send these to me and listeners of the pod send me the things you want to fucking know about like we're doing it. Yes, send it to me at supplemental. It's my Instagram handle. Yeah.

Cady Moore (35:34)
Okay.

Done. Where do we send it to?

Sharilyn Wester (35:38)
Yes.

Cady Moore (35:43)
Okay, cool, on Instagram, okay.

Sharilyn Wester (35:43)
Yes, would like love a crash course

on like GLP ones, which are really trendy right now. Obviously, you the Ozempic and all of that that a lot of people, you know, and I think like a lot of people who can get them even from just like diet weight loss clinics, who are, you know, not getting them from, you know, actual doctors like have I have no idea how it works, you know.

thalia mccann (35:48)
yes. Yeah, totally.

Oh yeah. I

have that on my list. I also want to talk about ketamine. Yeah. Yeah. I've got ketamine. I have lithium. I want to talk about like what all like creatine and like the different types of protein powders and like how to get ones that are just like full of lead, you know?

Cady Moore (36:04)
I didn't know what GLP-1 meant until you said it was Ozempic

Sharilyn Wester (36:07)
Mm-hmm.

Cady Moore (36:08)
It's like, yeah.

Mmm.

Sharilyn Wester (36:23)
Yeah, cause I've,

well, and then I hear and then I'm like, I really want to start having like, you know, protein powders, but then there's like things in them apparently that like build up in your system that you can't synthesize. And I'm like, I need someone to talk to about this. Why not talk to Thal?

thalia mccann (36:34)
Right. Right.

And like nootropics who tropics? Like I wanna know who's in the shit, like, you know? Yeah. Who tropic, who dat?

Cady Moore (36:39)
Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (36:42)
Yeah. Yeah!

Cady Moore (36:46)
my God, that's your first substack Who tropics?

Okay,

anything else to promote before we keep the sillies going? Okay, amazing. So Sharilyn, our guide of the sillies, our silly goddess, will you please lead us into silly-dom?

Sharilyn Wester (36:52)
my God, I love this.

thalia mccann (36:55)
I don't think so, that's it, yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (37:09)
Yeah,

so one thing that a lot of, go ahead.

thalia mccann (37:11)
wait, I have a bunch of science misinformation links I'm gonna put in the podcast description. Sorry.

Sharilyn Wester (37:15)
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Drop

Cady Moore (37:17)
So thank

Sharilyn Wester (37:18)
them hot links. Yes.

Cady Moore (37:18)
you, appreciate you. yeah, we'll put, Thal has a bunch of great links that we'll put in the show notes. So there will be so much good information in there for you if you want to learn more.

thalia mccann (37:22)
Okay. Cool.

Sharilyn Wester (37:25)
And obviously

her new platform that everyone should go follow to learn about all of the things, all of the new things, all of the trendy things, all of, yeah, WhoTropics, GLP ones, things that make you poop. She had teen. I was gonna be like, is it like some kind of like diuretic?

Cady Moore (37:33)
WhoTropics

thalia mccann (37:35)
Who drove it?

She a teen. Create a team for her.

Cady Moore (37:41)
Honestly, I'm thinking guillotine now

and I'm like, whose heads are we cutting off?

thalia mccann (37:47)
You know, that's a supplement I could get behind. I think it should be FDA recommended for certain leaders.

Sharilyn Wester (37:48)
Yeah, right now

I'm hopped up on gay-atine okay, so into the sillies. So one thing that y'all might not know about Thal, who is like our sweet nearest and dearest is she is also a gorly who loves a good fantasy, a good female main character led story. We like this much. She's given me so many good recommendations on this. But let me tell you,

Cady Moore (37:52)
Pim, pim, pim.

thalia mccann (37:54)
Ha!

We're

using good in a liberal sense here.

Sharilyn Wester (38:18)
B

It's so good. know, a vast suspension of disbelief for some of these, but you know what? In this current administration, we need to get all of the gay fantasy sex out there into our bodies and minds. So one of my questions for you, actually right now, is current favorites fantasy or spicy books?

Cady Moore (38:21)
It arouse you, but it is good smut.

thalia mccann (38:50)
Oh, okay. I'm currently reading the Daughter of Winter series. I can't remember the name of the author. It is the context is that it's like Celtic mythology meets like

Sharilyn Wester (38:59)
ooooh, this sounds familiar

Cady Moore (39:01)
We're both writing it down.

thalia mccann (39:06)
Unexpecting like.

Cady Moore (39:09)
Karina Douglas. Okay.

thalia mccann (39:11)
Yeah, I think so.

Unexpecting like gal pal like kind of finds out that actually she's like the descendant of this like Celtic goddess of winter, and that she is required to fulfill this incredible prophecy with like a brooding guardian that is linked to her by prophecy. And he doesn't have wings. He doesn't have wings.

Cady Moore (39:24)
hot.

Sharilyn Wester (39:24)
my God, yes.

Cady Moore (39:33)
Fated lovers, yes!

thalia mccann (39:37)
there's like two different timelines with two different like spicy romances i it is it is problematic it is toxic monogamy and it's it is sexist as fuck i don't like the she's not she's not an Aelin you know what i mean we know where my heart is but like it'll do it for you ladies

Sharilyn Wester (39:43)
I love that. So it keeps you fed.

Cady Moore (39:52)
Perfect. All my favorite things.

Sharilyn Wester (40:02)
Absolutely, Okay, Cady had a

Cady Moore (40:03)
Hell yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (40:05)
really, really, really good one that I've been laughing about all afternoon that you have to ask because it's so good. Because okay, so in one of our group chats, you've seen Nosferatu, have you?

thalia mccann (40:11)
no.

Cady Moore (40:13)
I

thalia mccann (40:17)
yeah. You must bounce on it.

Sharilyn Wester (40:18)
Okay, so I don't know if you're familiar...

Cady Moore (40:22)
Just put me on

alert. Yes.

Sharilyn Wester (40:25)
That's what I sent to Felicia and Cady earlier today, because that's been my most recent stim and for all of you not familiar. I will, I will. I have to preface it that like the man who plays Nosferatu obviously is like an old dude. I mean, yes. But someone made this TikTok sound of him with his voice and he's saying, you must 

Cady Moore (40:32)
Will you do it for us Sharilyn

Spoilers, alert here if you haven't watched Nosferatu

thalia mccann (40:46)
Okay.

Sharilyn Wester (40:53)
Bounce on it!

Crazy style! I keep stimming it and I have to be careful because I have children around but sometimes I'll just be like making my lunch and I'm like you must bounce on it. So anyway with that intro Cady what was your question?

Cady Moore (41:14)
I thought you were gonna talk about the fact that I learned today. I watched Nosferatu and just missed at the end that the husband fucks his wife after she's dead. And that's what I thought you were gonna talk about. And then I remembered what we're here for. so you must pick a, and I said cryptid, but I think we can go with, no, we're gonna keep it cryptid because that's what you fucked up.

thalia mccann (41:38)
Okay, I researched cryptid,

like let me have them coach. I was like, what counts as a cryptid?

Cady Moore (41:42)
Okay, okay, pick a cryptid

lover and defend why you want them to be your lover.

thalia mccann (41:48)
I'm ready. Are you ready? Because I've got, I did the homework, okay? Hear me out.

Cady Moore (41:50)
Yes. my God, I'm so excited.

Sharilyn Wester (41:50)
Yes. Yes. Give me your dissertation,

Dr. McCann.

thalia mccann (41:57)
Mothman.

Cady Moore (41:58)
AHHHH

thalia mccann (41:58)
Winged. Yes! Winged, dark, mysterious, glowing red eyes. It's giving Dracula. It's winged Faye. It's also potentially like linked to the ruff Russian mafia. you could really sing Take Me Home Country Roads because it originated in West Virginia. Like

Sharilyn Wester (42:19)
That's the biggest plus for me.

thalia mccann (42:26)
Listen, maybe an alien

Sharilyn Wester (42:26)
He's toothless!

thalia mccann (42:27)
take me with you. Like I'm just saying like this is it could also just be a giant fucking owl, which we know I love owls.

Cady Moore (42:34)
would also be dope.

Sharilyn Wester (42:38)
Okay, I'm looking through...

Cady Moore (42:38)
10 out of 10.

You understood the assignment. I am so impressed. Oh, Sharilyn didn't do the homework.

thalia mccann (42:41)
Yes.

Sharilyn Wester (42:42)
looking through different cryptids. Okay, for people...

thalia mccann (42:47)
Anybody else

Sharilyn Wester (42:48)
I didn't.

thalia mccann (42:49)
answered Mothman?

Cady Moore (42:51)
We've never asked it before. I literally just off the dome was like, what is something? What is something crazy? was like, I want to find a fuck Mary kill to do with Thal And then I was like, wait, no, I want her to pick a cryptid.

Sharilyn Wester (42:51)
I'm-

looking through it honestly.

thalia mccann (42:59)
Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (43:03)
This is bitter. Yeah.

thalia mccann (43:04)
Yeah, okay,

so Mothman is marry Fuck would be Chupacabra. Kill would be the Loch Ness. Like, just so boring. Like what, you just pop up once and then you're done? You didn't eat anybody? Like, get out.

Cady Moore (43:09)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Mmm,

dude, Chupacabra as a fuck for sure.

Sharilyn Wester (43:17)
So like looking through this,

I think the Kraken, honestly, all those tentacles, but he's also the size of like a building. So.

thalia mccann (43:25)
I see. Yeah, you won't

need gummies to get you wet.

Sharilyn Wester (43:32)
I won't survive that ride.

Cady Moore (43:36)
I love

thalia mccann (43:37)
I did homework!

Sharilyn Wester (43:39)
think I would kill a moth

man because moths really scare me.

thalia mccann (43:42)
That's right. Yeah.

Cady Moore (43:42)
Honestly, that's fair. That's very fair. I

feel like we, but we are neglecting the, we are neglecting Sasquatch, which is, which is my, my personal choice.

thalia mccann (43:51)
Sasquatch and there's also Megalodon

like there's all kinds of things

Sharilyn Wester (43:56)
yeah,

Cady Moore (43:56)
Well, the Meg was

Sharilyn Wester (43:57)
Sasquatch?

Cady Moore (43:57)
real.

Sharilyn Wester (43:59)
I'm like looking, okay, yeah.

thalia mccann (44:00)
But like, does it, yeah,

you know.

Cady Moore (44:03)
Yeah, Sasquatch. amazing. Thank you for indulging me in a little cryptozoology moment.

Sharilyn Wester (44:04)
Sasquatch is a good one.

thalia mccann (44:10)
That's beautiful.

Sharilyn Wester (44:10)
Ooh,

and then this silly question I have for both of you because I know obviously we prefaced like our last question with like, this is problematic but we love it anyway. For both of you, what is one trope you love that's problematic but one trope that you hate that's common?

I love a pregnancy trope. I love a pregnancy trope! I have a breeder's kink, what can I do? Sue me, sue me, okay?

Cady Moore (44:30)
Bye.

I was gonna say mine is Stockholm

syndrome.

Sharilyn Wester (44:39)
What is it? Wait, what is it?

Cady Moore (44:42)
Mine is

like held captive and falls in love with your captor. Beauty and the Beast style is probably, is my problematic one that I love. Beauty and the Bigfoot, it's not his fault he has big feet, he was born like that.

Sharilyn Wester (44:47)
like Stockholm yes yes yes yes yes

thalia mccann (44:51)
Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (44:52)
Beauty and the Bigfoot.

thalia mccann (44:55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I feel like related like same thing but different is like the like reformed villain that like falls in love with the heroine and then like, you know, like problem we're not we're not a fix it girly anymore. But like in fantasy smile like we could we could go there for the right thing. Yeah.

Cady Moore (45:13)
Mmm.

Yeah, we absolutely.

Sharilyn Wester (45:17)
feel like Xaden from 4th wing is a little bit like that, like very

like toxic possessive but like he has an eye scar so who cares right?

thalia mccann (45:24)
Yeah.

So real.

Cady Moore (45:27)
Like literally his chest.

thalia mccann (45:27)
And then the ones that I just hate like this list continues. number one female competition for some dull, brooding male uninteresting female villains like give me juicy female villains. more than just like jealousy. Like I'm bored. And then like, she doesn't know she's beautiful.

Cady Moore (45:36)
Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (45:47)
Yep.

Cady Moore (45:51)
ooo bleh bleh gimme a girl who knows she's hot as fuck and is ready to like tear shit down over it

Sharilyn Wester (45:51)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love...

thalia mccann (45:56)
Yeah.

Bryce. Bryce. Yes, Bryce knows she's the fucking hottest. I love

Sharilyn Wester (45:58)
Give me Aelin

Cady Moore (46:00)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sharilyn Wester (46:04)
my God, I know.

Cady Moore (46:04)
You're gonna use it because why would I not because this world was not built for me So let me take it while I can get it

thalia mccann (46:10)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (46:11)
Yeah,

I do hyperfixate on my love of like Nesta and like Aelin but Bryce book one of the Crescent City series is so fucking good with her like little white dress and her high heels and her like dusk colored nails. So good. Yeah, I feel like the inter fighting with like women. I fucking hate that. Like I don't need to have him.

thalia mccann (46:17)
Yeah.

Cady Moore (46:17)
Mmm.

thalia mccann (46:20)
Yeah. Yeah.

Cady Moore (46:20)
here.

thalia mccann (46:25)
Right.

Cady Moore (46:30)
I can't.

thalia mccann (46:31)
I can't with that.

Men aren't a resource. I'm not interested. They're a liability.

Sharilyn Wester (46:36)
Right.

Cady Moore (46:37)
Men aren't a resource. Damn, that is a sound bite to end all sound bites. love that shit.

Sharilyn Wester (46:38)
Right, right,

I'm getting that tatted on me. Yes. Okay.

thalia mccann (46:47)
Anyways.

Sharilyn Wester (46:47)
Cady, do you have any other silly questions that you want to ask?

Cady Moore (46:51)
I mean, I don't know that this one is silly, but this could send us off on a nice high note. What is one takeaway that you get from reading a book with a strong female main character? what are, guess, what are some of your favorite through lines in those stories?

thalia mccann (47:07)
The

Yeah, I think that the like, the strongest female characters, they actually have the deepest internal struggles. Like, they aren't people who are really interacting with the world with like this like kind of normalcy. Like their intensity is also internal and like not like, I'm healing my shadow side. They like embrace that shadow side. They fucking handed a sword.

Cady Moore (47:10)
We kind of already talked about some of them, but.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (47:39)
their shadows a

Cady Moore (47:39)
Mmm.

thalia mccann (47:40)
dragon and they're just like, I'm out here with it. And I think that that's just something that I've been really like, embracing this year because I think there's just still so many layers of like, acculturation and training as like, someone who identifies as a woman to be like people pleasing and to like smile and to like, you know, if you are emblazed with like your passion and your anger and your feelings, you're like hormonal, you know, like you're not

Cady Moore (48:08)
Mmm,

mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (48:09)
seriously,

especially in like science, you're supposed to just be like, objective and whatever. You know, listen, like if we're like watching in real time, the like divorcee to Nazi pipeline with like a bunch of bullshit, like I get to just be as angry as I fucking want and everyone else deal with part of that.

Cady Moore (48:16)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sharilyn Wester (48:26)
Exactly.

Mmm, like righteous anger.

Cady Moore (48:29)
And like your healing, like the healing journey doesn't have to be peaceful. Like maybe what's healing for me is embracing my anger and is letting myself feel the rage that I've spent my whole life being told was ugly because I'm a woman.

Sharilyn Wester (48:35)
Yes.

thalia mccann (48:38)
Yeah!

Yeah, like Aelin burning off like a whole fucking tidal wave or like nesta with her cold ass like silver flame like just swirly goddamn insides and all the shit she went through. Like I think about that. mean, and I mean, like I relate on so many levels because I think that this is like why I keep fighting and like why I climb mountains like it's just because there's more happening there than utter suppression. And that's beautiful. That that's like

Cady Moore (48:55)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

thalia mccann (49:12)
really a sign of courage and strength and I think we just mess up where our values lie when we teach that to little girls.

Cady Moore (49:20)
Mm, fuck yeah. What an amazing note to end on. Thank you so much for that. I've got full body chills and I'm like, yes, queendom is here. It is upon us. Well, thank you so much, Thal. We will have to do this again to talk about your Shabari because like there is so much there that we literally didn't, we didn't even touch it. And like,

Sharilyn Wester (49:21)
100%. Ugh, I love that.

thalia mccann (49:31)
Yes.

Sharilyn Wester (49:42)
We didn't even touch that.

Cady Moore (49:46)
We wanna hear about you tying people up for fun and we want to be able to shout out your incredible work. So we will have to do this again. Thank you so much for being here. You are just a fount of knowledge and we are so grateful. Yes.

Sharilyn Wester (49:57)
We love you so much.

thalia mccann (49:58)
No, thank you so much for

having me you guys. Like I just love this project. I love like listening to you fucking yap while I'm making breakfast and driving to work. Like it's just so amazing that like women that I look up to and love so much are just creating such an amazing platform for meaningful discussion. Like thank you.

Cady Moore (50:17)
Well, god, fuck. Both of us are like, I'm gonna cry now. you're so good. Thank you.

Sharilyn Wester (50:17)
my gosh, we couldn't do it without amazing

thalia mccann (50:19)
You

Okay, cool, so

like, I'm sorry, maybe.

Sharilyn Wester (50:26)
guests like you. And we're so grateful that we not only get to call you an expert that we get to call upon, but a friend.

Cady Moore (50:32)
Thank you, Dr. McCann.

thalia mccann (50:33)
I love you guys, good work!

Okay, you can call me master now.

Sharilyn Wester (50:36)
Ugh.

Cady Moore (50:46)
A huge thank you to Dr. Thalia McCann for being with us today and for giving us two full episodes worth of amazing content. Thank you to my girl, Sharilyn, for being an amazing co-host. She'll be back next week. Don't you fret. And thank you to all of you for listening and supporting us. If you liked what you heard or if you loved what you heard, please don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. It really does help us out.

You can slide into our DMs on Instagram at knee deep podcast to share your thoughts, ask questions, or suggest what we should dive into next. You can also send your questions to need podcast mailbag at gmail.com. And as always, you can find us on Patreon as well. All of the links will be in the show notes to all of these goodies, as well as some links from Dr. McCann. And we will see you in two weeks for our season one recap episode. See you soon.