Knee Deep in the Pleasuresode

In this episode of Knee Deep in the Passenger Seat, Cady and Sharilyn take a deep dive into the world of pleasure—what it means, why it matters, and the barriers that keep us from fully embracing it. From the science of how stress and guilt hijack joy to personal anecdotes about navigating purity culture and inadequate sex education, they unravel the societal layers that fuel shame around pleasure.

The conversation explores the role of body image, patriarchy, and economic inequality in shaping our access to pleasure and offers practical tips for finding joy in the everyday. It also highlights the medical community’s neglect of pleasure in health conversations and emphasizes the power of self-care and body autonomy.

To wrap things up, the hosts switch gears and discuss their love (and critiques!) of book-to-screen adaptations, sharing their favorites and least favorites and explaining why representation matters in storytelling. 

Start Your Pleasure Journey:

• Download your FREE copy of Cady's guide to Building a Self-Pleasure practice here.
• Join the Pleasure Revolution here. 

Referenced in this Episode:

• The Body is not an Apology, by Sonya Renee Taylor
• Burnout by Emily Nagoski
• Come as You Are by Emily Nagoski
• Pleasure Activism by adrienne maree brown
• Erica Smith on Instagram @ericasmith.educates
• The Pelvic People on Instagram @thepelvicpeople

Follow Us:

• Instagram: @KneeDeepPodcast
• TikTok: @KneeDeepPodcast
• Cady: @ageofsexploration
• Sharilyn: @queerwomenspoetrycollective

Support Us on Patreon:

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Send Us Your Questions or Comments:

We love hearing from you! Got a question or a topic you’d like us to cover? Email us at kneedeepodcastmailbag@gmail.com

Thanks for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review!

Chapters

• 16:33 Defining Pleasure & Everyday Examples of Pleasure
• 22:22 The Science of Pleasure and the ~*BRAIN*~
• 32:58 STRESS
• 41:20 How Society F*cked Us All Up
• 54:02 How to Access Pleasure in the Day-to-Day
• 1:05:25 The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly: Book-to-Screen Adaptations

Transcript

Transcript of Episode 5: Knee Deep in the Pleasursode

Transcribed by Katy Stark

Cady Moore (00:02): I have to take my meds. [laughs] Just give me a second. Sorry, everybody.

Sharilyn Wester (00:11): Send it. [Cady laughs] Slam those puppies back. Whoo! This is now an ASMR podcast. Listen to me [both laughing] take my ADHD medication in 1080p 4K.

[theme song, ending with robotic voice saying, “Knee Deep in the Passenger Seat”]

Cady Moore (01:01): All right. Hey there, everyone. I don't know why I clapped. [Sharilyn laughs] Hey there, everyone. Welcome back to Knee Deep in the Passenger Seat where we dive into sex, relationships, non-monogamy, queer issues, and all the spicy topics that keep life interesting. I'm your host Cady.

Sharilyn Wester (01:08): And I'm Sharilyn. [Cady laughs] Um, also on the topic of clapping, I'm bringing back the worship clap when we get [chuckles] excited. A little bit of this. We're discussing the topic of pleasure today, and the worship clap gives me pleasure. Um, we're looking at what pleasure is, how to access it, what prevents us from accessing it, and obviously, we're gonna get into sillies at the end. But first, Cady, what is in your passenger seat today?

Cady Moore (01:38): Well, now it feels like it's the worship clap. [Sharilyn laughs] No. Um, but real talk. I think it's funny that like I love church music, [Sharilyn laughs] and I get made fun of for it. I mean, to be— I like very specific… like I love bluegrass, gospel music. And I'm always a little, like, “I'm Jewish. This feels weird, [Sharilyn chuckles] but it's so pretty.” I don't know. [Sharilyn: It is.] Anyway, what's in my passenger seat today?

I have been dealing with some pest infestations in the plants that are in my office, which there's like 50-something plants in here. Um, and spider mites and fungus gnats at the same time is no effing joke. I think we've got it like mostly under control, but it's been real annoying. And I'm tired and ready to like just hang out with my plants again instead of always being a little bit afraid every time I go to talk to one. I'm like, “Is there gonna be something crawling on your surface today?” [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm, absolutely.] So that's what's in my passenger seat are spider mites.

Sharilyn Wester (02:51): Mm, I'm so sorry. Those are not what I want to find in my passenger seat. [Cady chuckles] Um, I famously am not a plant girlie. All of mine are fake because somehow I can take care of children, but I forget to water a plant. So, um, I get to look at my dusty ass IKEA plants, and sometimes I'm like, “You know what, maybe I should get the real thing.” But then I hear about spider mites, and I'm like, “You know what, I'm good.” I am so sorry you're dealing with that. [Cady: Oh, it's okay.] I think it's really hard when you're— 

Cady Moore (03:17): I would rather deal with that than children. [Sharilyn: True.] I mean, I love your children. [laughs]

Sharilyn Wester (03:20): You know what— [Cady laughs] Yeah, no, sometimes I would rather have a plant than deal with children, too. [both laugh] Frankly speaking. 

Um, what is my passenger seat? I'm feeling so good because I got a great sleep last night. [Cady: Oh.] I have been a sufferer of chronic insomnia for many, many years. I've tried different meds, anxiety meds, all of that, melatonin, edibles. Um, after having children, something clicked in my brain, or like clicked off in my brain, where sleep has been very hard for me to get. And I still am functional. I still feel okay, you know, I still do all the things. But last night at around like 7 or 8 p.m., my body, I could feel it was telling me like, “Hey, we're feelin’ a little sleepy,” and I got really excited. And so around 11 p.m. last night, I ended up going to sleep, and it felt amazing. I also found something that helps me sleep is… Um, I—

Cady Moore (04:16): Animal attack podcasts.

Sharilyn Wester (04:19): Ha! [Cady: Just me? Okay.] Not those, actually. [Cady: Hm.] So on the other end of the spectrum, if we have two wolves inside of us, animal attack podcasts help you sleep. For me, it's learning that I need like a squishmallow or some… or like a stuffie to help me sleep. [Cady: Aww.] And so because I became a mom so young, like around 20, anytime I would buy stuffies or cute things, obviously, it was for my children, right? I've never really had like a stuffie of my own [Cady: Mm-hmm] or like a Squishmallow or whatever. And so for my birthday, one of my partners bought me this really cute Hello Kitty like squishy, like almost backpack, [Cady: Oh!] and so I've been sleeping with it at night. And her body is like, it's a Hello Kitty one, and she's wearing — I'll get in a sec — she's wearing a little dinosaur outfit, and she has her big head and her little body. And I found when I like kind of snuggle her like this, it is actually really comforting. Kind of like keeping my chest open and not— ’Cause when I sleep, I Nosferatu. I— [Cady laughs] [Cady: Hrmph.] Um, and so, it's so comforting, and I've been having the best sleep. And so last night, I got so excited. I texted all my partners their good night message pretty early. “Hey, I go to bed!” I was really stoked about it. And then, I just like snuggle my little Hello Kitty. 

Cady Moore (05:38): I'm so proud of you.

Sharilyn Wester (05:40): Thank you! So, I'm feeling actually really good.

Cady Moore (05:41): For those of you who don't — I mean, I feel like a lot of you probably don't know — that, yeah, Sharilyn is a night owl to the nth degree. Like, [Sharilyn: Yeah.] we were up playing Jackbox Games until like [Sharilyn: 4.] midnight our time the other night, [Sharilyn: Yeah.] which is, yeah, like 3 a.m. And all of us are always like a little worried about our girly pop gettin’ her sleep. [Sharilyn: Yup.] Um, is that the correct use of girly pop? Did I do that right, or did I just make myself into a millennial that uses slang wrong?

Sharilyn Wester (06:22): I think girly pop is sometimes used in a way that is sarcastically poking fun at someone. Like you say it to a cishet man—

Cady Moore (06:29): As soon as I said it, I was like…

Sharilyn Wester (06:31): To piss them off. [Cady: Okay] Or like you say it when like your friends are being delusional. Like when they're like, “Yeaaah…” [mimics someone talking in a high-pitched voice] 

Cady Moore (06:37): Okay, girly pop.

Sharilyn Wester (06:38): Yeah like, “Yes, girly pop! Get it! Absolutely do that.”

Cady Moore (06:40): Okay, yeah. Okay. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] Well, um, so I just meant girly. [laughs]

Sharilyn Wester (06:45): That's okay. I'll be a little girly pop today. 

Yeah, it's been years and years and years, and it's… it's frustrating. And I've kind of like learned to live life around it. I still get up early to get my kids ready for school and get them fed or get them ready and all of that. And I just, my body has adapted. But I'm like, it's still… it's still a work in progress. And so nights when I do find myself feeling sleepy early, I'm like, “Fuck yeah, let's go!” Like I'm jumping in bed. I'm brushing my teeth, washing my face. I'm like, okay, let's not lose this momentum. Because there has been times when I've been tired, and I lay down and like, you know the ADHD thing. Something pops into my head and then, all of a sudden, it's three in the morning, and I've learned about, um, very intensely learned about like the War of the Roses. So… [Cady laughs] From England's history.

Cady Moore (07:30): A nice little Wiki wormhole. 

Sharilyn Wester (07:32): So that was a high! 

Cady Moore (07:33): Well, okay, do a show and tell. Bring us… Bring us Hello Kitty. 

Sharilyn Wester (07:36): Let me show you my squishy.

Cady Moore (07:37): And our patrons will get to see it even though nobody else will because we'll cut this from the audio.

So this is our shameless plug to subscribe to our Patreon. You can find us at Patreon.com slash Knee Deep Podcast and you will get access to exclusive video content from all of our episodes. See you there.

Sharilyn Wester (07:53): Um, so on that note, on that high — because I'm feeling really good — what are some highs and lows of your week this week, Cady?

Cady Moore (08:01): My high and my low happened, actually, very close together. I pulled an ADHD, and I accidentally left Lilith's tank door open overnight. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] And so I came into my office and immediately my stomach just like dropped. So that was my low [Sharilyn laughs] of the week [Sharilyn: Yep.] because she was not — spoiler — she was not in her tank. Like I mean, I left the tank open. She said, “Bye!” Um, and then the high was like 20 minutes later when I finally found her in the closet. [Sharilyn: Yeah.] I was very relieved and grateful, but she also was so cold. And I was like, “You sweet baby, you are ectothermic. You can't be— Why would you go to the coldest spot in the room, you dork?” 

Sharilyn Wester (08:56): Classic anti-ectothermic behavior. Let me tell you. Girly pop! [Cady laughs] Get it together, you're ectothermic!

Cady Moore (09:01): Girly pop, what are you doing? [Sharilyn laughs] Um, so that was… yeah, so that was my high and my low. They happened very quick together. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] I mean, my actual low is that my period was six days late, which if I still had fallopian tubes, I would be worried. 

Do you need to go rescue Hello Kitty?

Sharilyn Wester (09:15): [laughs] You can see them in the mirror? 

Cady Moore (09:18): Yeah, do you need to go rescue her?

Sharilyn Wester (09:20): No, my cats are boxing right now. Look, they're just— 

Cady Moore (09:22): Oh, okay, they're boxing each other.

Sharilyn Wester (09:24): They'll just stare at each other really angrily until one of them swipes. Anyway, they do this all the time. Continue. [laughs]  

Cady Moore (09:31): No, that's, that's-

Sharilyn Wester (09:32): Oh, I have to say I was getting these updates in real-time because I was FaceTiming with your partner [chuckles] ‘cause he's one of my sweet babies also who I love very nearly and dearly. And we were talking, all of a sudden, he's like, “Oh, I just got a text from Cady that Lilith got out of her tank.” And I was like, “Do you have to go rescue?” And he's like, “I think she's probably got it, but I'm gonna wait.” And then like 20 minutes later when we were still on the phone, he's like, “Oh, she was found.” I was like, “Great.”

Cady Moore (09:57): Yeah, I did—

Sharilyn Wester (09:58): I feel like I was part of the rescue mission.

Cady Moore (10:00): You were. You absolutely were. [Sharilyn: Thank you.] Well, it's funny because the only other time that she's gotten out was actually when he and I had just started dating. Like we'd only been dating for like five months [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] and — I think less actually — and he was house-sitting for us while we went to London. So I was like, you know, many time zones away, and I woke up to a series of texts about her getting out. And fine, I mean, again, we found her obviously. But you know, poor baby, he had never like held a snake. He had never touched a snake. He had no idea what to do. So he texted her original owner who was like, “Look for the warmest place in the room.” And he was like, [deeper voice] “I don't know where the fuck that is.” And he found her at the top of my closet. [Sharilyn: Mmm!] And so he had to like go up there and reach in to grab this snake whose little face— I have the picture. I'll post it on the Instagram. Like her little face was sticking out over my shoes, and he had to just go and grab it. And yeah, sweet angel baby. [Sharilyn: Mmm.] So, I was like, “Come help!” And then I was like, “Cady, you've got this. You're fine.” [laughs] “You don't need him to help you.” 

Sharilyn Wester (11:08): “You’re fine.” [laughs]

Cady Moore (11:10): “You may be a damsel, but you are not in distress right now.”

Sharilyn Wester (11:13): Exactly. Ugh, we love being a damsel sometimes though. It is a nice little treat— 

Cady Moore (11:18): It’s true. [whiny] I'm baby. [quieter] I’m baby.

Sharilyn Wester (11:20): Um, my high of the week— Sorry, what was your high of the week?

Cady Moore (11:25): It was finding Lilith.

Sharilyn Wester (11:27): Oh, yes, finding and— Yeah. Honestly, that was a journey, and I'm so glad we went on it all together. [Cady laughs] It was real. 

My high of the week was I had a really great experience on psychedelics this weekend with one of my partners. He's also just like, he's so sweet. Our hotel room that we were in — because obviously I'm not gonna do it at home. He— I was just like, I'm really just needing to like chill and hang back, and I want a mellow experience. So he rearranged the furniture so I could lay in bed, and like there he put the TV on a stand at the end of the bed and then connected his computer behind it. So he was sitting there gaming. And I just got to like sit and was happy and like scrolling on my phone and watching him game and starting to feel the onset of it, and that was so fun. And it was just such a great experience, and it was very positive. And I was like feeling the after tingles for the next day or two. And it really just gave me a little boost, and I'm just still feeling so good from that. 

So yeah, and I don't think I have a low this week. [Cady: I love that.] I've been feeling really great. And I'm wanting to acknowledge that and celebrate it because it's very… I feel like very rare for me to be like, yeah, everything feels like it's going really good. But it does. It feels really good.

Cady Moore (12:50): Hell yeah, I love that for you. Mm, that makes me so happy. I also feel like we've talked about drugs on every single episode so far. [laughs] 

Sharilyn Wester (12:59): Yeaaah.

Cady Moore (13:00): And I'm like, this is also a drug podcast. We're just seeking dopamine, it's fine.

Sharilyn Wester (13:04): Yeah. [fakes serious tone] Breaking baddies. What I feel like for the most part, the majority of our audience like they've probably dabbled or know people who dabble or whatever. And so you know what? Just use responsibly. 

Cady Moore (13:15): Yeah, that's all. 

[both laugh] 

Sharilyn Wester (13:17): I don't have anything else to say. Go ahead. I'm not your mom. [laughs]

Cady Moore (13:21): I'm not your mommy, but I will be if you want. Maybe.

Sharilyn Wester (13:26): [baby voice] But maybe.

Cady Moore (13:28): [baby voice] Maybe. 

[normal voice] So what are some things that you are looking forward to this week?

Sharilyn Wester (13:34): Um, getting into school. My semester starts tomorrow, but it is going to be a busy day. I have to drive all the way to Atlanta and back to pick up my sister. So… and then I'm going on a trip to New Orleans this weekend, right as the beginning semester hits. So I am gonna be very busy. I'm more eager to just get through it, start it, and then like get into the groove of things. Because once I'm in the groove of things, and I have balance, and I know which classes take up more of my time than others, and I'm not on the road, it's fine, and I feel like I'm capable. But yeah, I'm just excited just to— I wanna fast forward into the semester, like two or three weeks. And so I feel good. Yeah, what about you?

Cady Moore (14:19): I… Honestly, Age of Sexploration, which is my business, has a lot of really cool opportunities coming up. By the time this comes out, this will have been long past, but I'm teaching an abbreviated version of a four-hour intensive on [Sharilyn: Oh.] sex work and the history of sex work, the laws that impact sex work, decriminalization versus the Nordic model, which I'm not going to explain here because, literally, just take the class. [laughs] [Sharilyn: Literally.] Yeah, I'm going be offering it every so often because I really like it, and I think it's really important. And I think it's something that… it's definitely catered towards folks in the sexuality field but like also for anybody who is sex-positive and is passionate about sex education, which I know you do not have to be in the field to be passionate about it. But, um, yeah, that is the— I'm really proud and excited of it. 

And then we also — as long as it goes well — I think Sex Ed Trivia has finally found a permanent home, and I'm really excited to announce that. And yeah, so things are just feeling really good and mellow and steady, which is nice. Because when you're an ADHD kid, sometimes you seek out the ups and then that comes with a crash. And so we've just kind of been on a nice steady trajectory, which feels really good.

Sharilyn Wester (15:43): Yeah, and it sounds like slowly incorporating that, which I love.

Cady Moore (15:47): Yeah, absolutely. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] So with that being said, we're going to take a quick sponsor break. And before we do that, I just want to give a content warning that today we are talking about pleasure, and we are also talking about what barriers prevent us from pleasure. So we will be talking a little bit about like systems of oppression and body shame and sexual assaults. And not in any, you know, serious detail, but I do want to make sure that people know that that is coming up in this conversation. When we get to the section on barriers to pleasure, that is when we will be talking about it. So no need to skip ahead yet. We'll let you know. But yeah, so we're going to take a quick sponsor break, and we will be right back.

[theme song]

Cady Moore (16:41): All right, so we are here today to talk about pleasure. 

Sharilyn Wester (16:45): [singing] Pleasure!

Cady Moore (16:46): Pleasure is defined as a feeling of happy satisfaction and enjoyment. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] Pleasure is not inherently sexual, though Meta would have you think otherwise because the word pleasure will get you shadow-banned. Cool, cool, cool. [Sharilyn: Insane.] Love that.

Sharilyn Wester (17:02): Shadow ban a feeling. 

Cady Moore (17:04): [chuckles] Yeah, exactly.

Sharilyn Wester (17:05): Shadow ban this dick. Okay, sorry.

[Cady laughs]

Cady Moore (17:10): I just— We live for the Sharilyn sound bites. Let's be real. [Sharilyn laughs]

But one of the things that when I— So I teach a three-week, with a colleague of mine, I teach a three-week course on pleasure. And we start with showing different examples of pleasure that are non-sexual. So Sharilyn, what are some of your examples of non-sexual pleasure?

Sharilyn Wester (17:47): So mine, actually, and I've been considering this lately, and it's something that my friend Emily had told me recently that really sparked something within me. And I shared it with our polycule, and I've been sharing it with all my friends. I've been spreading the gospel. For me, what I recognize as pleasure in my day-to-day life are things called microdoses of joy. And the way my friend Emily explained this was like, there are little things that maybe bring you just a spark of happiness, of pleasure that you can surround yourself with or you can attain. And it's important to witness those, acknowledge it, and integrate it more into your life. 

So one thing that we get, we call it a silly little beverage. So when you're out running errands, when you're going out to do an event or some fun little thing or just going about your day, it's really fun to just get a silly little beverage. That is one non-sexual thing that brings me pleasure. Getting a little coffee, a silly little coffee, a sneaky little, slutty little coffee, [Cady laughs] a creamy little slutty coffee. Oh my God. That brings me pleasure. Seeing the way that the light comes into my room in the morning and makes it like kind of glow in here [Cady: Mm.] brings me pleasure. Seeing art on my walls from my children and my friends and my creative companions brings me pleasure. I have this new wax warmer that is a hobbit hole that I will also show you after — [lowers voice] for Patreon only. You guys, only the Patreon people get access to my hobbit hole. [Cady laughs] Um, that brings me pleasure [chuckles] because when I turn it on, it smells really good. It brings me warmth. Candles. My little Witcher figurines that our partner has gotten for me brings me pleasure. So little… for me, it's more like little tokens in my environment that brighten up my day or give me little sparks of joy.

Cady Moore (19:37): Mm! As soon as Sharilyn introduced microdoses of joy, I was like, we need to talk about that on the pod. ‘Cause it just like, you know— And you can call them whatever you want. You can call them like moments of gratitude. Yeah, you can call them whatever you want. But yeah, I mean, I have my office full of disco balls specifically because I just know that when the light hits them and bounces off, it makes me smile and makes me happy. [Sharilyn giggles] Um, I've been—

Sharilyn Wester (20:00): What about you?

Cady Moore (20:01): Yeah, I've been really thinking about— Honestly, the two that are coming up most for me right now are food and then like physical intimacy that is non-sexual and like getting more touch in my life and more closeness with people that is not based in romance or sexual. And then with food, it's like really trying to savor what I'm eating [Sharilyn: Mmm.] when I'm eating it. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] So I'm like thinking of like different fruits. I know it's kind of the wrong season for fruit right now. But the example that I think that I use in my… in the courses when you eat like a ripe strawberry, because usually it's like more than one bite. So you really get to like get it. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] I also think of Cynthia Erivo's riff in “Defying Gravity.” [Sharilyn gasps] And the way that that gives me full body chills. I'm like, “Mm, yes, this is pleasure. This is absolutely pleasure.”

Sharilyn Wester (21:11): For me, it's the one where in “I'm Not That Girl,” [Cady: Mm.] she does this amazing riff, and it's like so sparkly and magical. Ugh. [Cady: Yeah.] Yes, so good. Cynthia Erivo—

Cady Moore (21:23): Yeah. I'm definitely—

Sharilyn Wester (21:24): In general.

Cady Moore (21:25): I'm someone who emotes. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] And I like, I have physical reactions to things all the time. So I'm just like trying to think of all the other times. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] I mean, like music is a really big one. [Sharilyn: Yeah.] Like music brings me pleasure often.

Sharilyn Wester (21:40): Fancy nails!

Cady Moore (21:42): Fancy nails. When I get—

Sharilyn Wester (21:43): Anytime I look at them.

Cady Moore (21:44): When I get a glimpse of my nails when I'm driving, and I'm like, “Look how cute these are.”

Sharilyn Wester (21:48): Yes, oh my gosh, fancy nails are so good. Yeah, I feel that way, too. Like when I… I get goosebumps a lot when things bring me joy. And again, like those are really good indicators to see what is making you happy. Or that like excited flutter or rush, I love that. I love that. I have these like lights here, these like purple lights. So at night when my room is dark and I turn them on, my whole room is then cast in this like ethereal glow. Love that.

Cady Moore (22:17): Dude, yeah. Every time I see those I'm like, “I need to get some.” I need to get some cool sexy lights because yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (22:22): Yes you do, absolutely. Yeah.

Cady Moore (22:25): They're on my Amazon wish list now, even though I know Amazon is [high-pitched] the worst. 

Um… So we're gonna segue now to some science-y information. I'm not gonna go too far into detail because, honestly, I literally teach this in a three-week course. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] So I'm not trying to overwhelm y'all with information. But the biggest sexual organ in the body is the brain. That's it, full stop. Pleasure activates the brain's reward system. So when you're doing all these pleasurable activities, dopamine is released, which creates feelings of pleasure and reward. And this pleasure pathway links the parts of the brain that are receiving this information with the parts of the brain that control motivation, emotion, and reward. Repeated pleasurable activities can strengthen those pathways, which creates habits, which can be either good or bad. So, that's it. That's like the shortest explanation of how pleasure works in the brain. Good thing happens, dopamine is released, creates feeling of pleasure and reward, which then informs the feelings of motivation and reward to seek out those things. 

And again, this can be beneficial. I'm thinking of like how I usually don't want to exercise, but once I do exercise, I'm like, “Wow, I feel so good. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] I want to have this feeling again.” Or harmful ones like, I mean, drugs are the best example, but like also something like TikTok. We get a dopamine hit when we do that, and so we go to crave it. It's the reason why when you open up your phone, you automatically go to open Instagram, even though that's what you weren't… you weren't going to your phone to open Instagram, but that's why. So that is—

Sharilyn Wester (24:09): And how many times are we scrolling Instagram to close it and then not realize that we immediately open it again?

Cady Moore (24:16): Oh yeah, I literally changed my phone home screen today when I was up at 5 a.m. and couldn't fall back asleep. I changed it to where Instagram is no longer in the original spot, and I have accidentally opened ChatGPT like four times today. 

Sharilyn Wester (24:31): That's crazy. 

Cady Moore (24:32): And I'm like, this is perfect. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] I'm gonna just keep moving it. [Sharilyn: Absolutely!] So that I can never get used to where it is. [Sharilyn laughs] Haha, sucka! 

Sharilyn Wester (24:37): Haha, where’d she go? [laughs]

Cady Moore (24:39): I fooled you. Hmm…

Sharilyn Wester (24:40): Absolutely. No, I think that's—

Cady Moore (24:41): I outsmarted you.

Sharilyn Wester (24:42): Yeah. And I think for us, like, I think in acknowledging the things that do give you pleasure, um, that also feed into like the health, wealth, and abundance within your life, it makes it easier to see the things that you maybe physiologically feel pleasure from but maybe don't add. So like scrolling TikTok, you know, hyper-fixating or limerence. Limerence is like when you kind of live in like a fantasy world or an ideal of someone or of a relationship, and you kind of get a positive feedback like imagining these things, but it's not necessarily reality. It's something that like, if you've done therapy, maybe you've deconstructed as well. Um, stuff like that. So I think a lot of people need to realize that pleasure is a mental game, but also there is stuff, like you said, that's happening within your body that reinforces it. But you can take control and note what those things are. [Cady: Mm-hmm.] That's so important. 

Cady Moore (25:42): Yeah, well, that's… and that's on knowing your triggers too, [Sharilyn: Absolutely.] which is a whole other like non-monogamy-related tangent that we can go on when it comes to like how to handle the hard feelings that comes up in non-monogamy. [Sharilyn: Yeah.] It's like well, you got to know what triggers you.

Sharilyn Wester (25:50): I don't think we've scheduled a non-monog episode yet, but maybe season two, I think we should get into it.

Cady Moore (25:56): Yeah, I agree. I feel like [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] we sprinkle it in here and there all the time, but like a monogamy— a non-monogamy specific episode I think would be really fun. Maybe one on jealousy [Sharilyn exhales sharply] because jealousy is so spicy.

Sharilyn Wester (26:06): That would be so good. It's so spicy, and there's so much to dive into there.

Cady Moore (26:11): Yeah, absolutely. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] But today, we are talking about pleasure. So I'm going to explain and just, if you have not read “Come As You Are” by Emily Nagoski, I highly recommend it. If you're not a big reader, the audiobook is really good. She narrates it, and she does a really good job. She's one of my favorite science communicators. Also, if you don't want to read it, that's okay. That's what coaches and educators are here for, to read the book so you don't have to. So, I'm going to briefly, like the crashiest of courses, teach a little bit from this book. 

So, our sexual desire is governed by two systems that work together: the sexual inhibitors and the sexual exciters. Here we're going to use the analogy of accelerators and brakes. So the exciters are the things that turn you on. The brakes are the things that turn you off. All of us have our own personal accelerator pedals and brake pedals, and everyone is different. And it doesn't matter how hard you press that accelerator. So it doesn't matter how much porn, how much foreplay, how much whatever you do to hit the accelerator. If your brakes are on, you're not gonna go anywhere. 

When coaches work with— Well, I mean, can't speak for all coaches; I can speak on me. But when I'm working with folks who are having trouble accessing arousal and desire, the sensitive brake, the brake that's always on, is the strongest predictor of not being able to access that. And when we talk about brakes, there are two different kinds of brakes. There are external factors, which are potential threats. So for example, a knock on the door, and all of a sudden you go, “Oh, fuck.” And you like immediately start feeling a rush of whatever it is, whether it's fear, shame, whatever you may feel. You're like, “Ah! I'm feeling it all right now.” Or there's internal factors, which are negative feelings about yourself, your mind, your body. Um, or like — and this is where it gets kind of complicated, but I don't want to jump ahead too much — but like stress is another really good example that's like both external and internal. 

Um, but so there's internal, which are negative feelings about yourself, your body, your brain. Another good example is like, “Oh, I'm taking too long to come,” like that's kind of a good example. And then there's external factors, which are those potential threats. And most of our brakes are related to context, which context are external circumstances— I'm using hand gestures [both laugh] that I'm realizing that people can't see that, but external circumstances and internal states. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] And your brain's perception of sensation is based on the context in which that is happening. So an example of that would be when your partner, if you are aroused and having a good time, and your partner touches your armpit, it maybe tickles a little bit, but like it mostly feels good. If your sibling comes up behind you and sticks their finger in your armpit, you're gonna not like it, and you're gonna react. So that's two different contexts in which the same sensation is processed differently by your brain. 

So, when we talk about context being the kind of most essential informant for our brakes, the biggest one that comes to my mind — and we're gonna dig into a bunch of these, a bunch of different contexts — but is stress. Because we live in a world that is very stressful, that is full of stress all the time. And our bodies are designed to react to stress in a way that keeps us safe. Um, another example of— [chuckles] Another Emily Nagoski book that I highly recommend is she has a book called “Burnout” that she actually wrote with her sister that talks about chronic stress. And it talks about the stress cycle and specifically how it manifests in AFAB bodies, that's assigned female at birth and people socialized as women, because women in particular are expected to hold so much more than men. Um, we are expected to be caregivers. We are supposed to take care of ourself and others and put everyone's needs before our own. We're supposed to monitor our bodies — and we're going to talk about more of this today — but we're supposed to monitor our bodies and our behaviors and our actions to make sure that we are good. And that is stressful. Stress reduces sexual interest for 80 to 90% of people and it reduces pleasure in everyone, regardless of gender or sex. 

Um, so, I want to pause before I keep yappin' to ask Sharilyn any thoughts or questions so far. [Sharilyn laughs] Because I feel like I've been yappin'.

Sharilyn Wester (31:11): I— That is really great. No, I think that's all really good information. I think the thing about stress being an inhibitor, um, to pleasure — on the flip side of that — one thing I've noticed is some people use pleasure, like sexual pleasure, as a way to cope with stress. So like, only seeking physical release with someone when like maybe you actually really need the space to be vulnerable emotionally. Or maybe, um, you're seeking out that dopamine hit that comes from sexually engaging with someone while not having the emotional facilities to connect maybe on a deeper level or have done [Cady: Mm.] the self work. And so I think stress alters how we engage with pleasure in a lot of different ways for sure. Or things like overeating or undereating when we're stressed. We get pleasure from that empty feeling, or we… [Cady: Mm-hmm.] we seek out things that bring us pleasure in ways that help us cope with not getting that input elsewhere. Do you know what I mean? [Cady: Mm-hmm.] So I think it's… I think that's all really good stats and facts. 

And 100% on the expectations for women for having these, this kind of dissonance within expectations, which we're gonna get into in a minute. But of— I think something we've mentioned before is the schism of the Madonna and the whore, of being the Madonna, the purity, the caregiver while also being expected to be subservient sexually or a provider sexually or atuned to their male partner's needs, you know, all these things that come from cishet culture. So, absolutely, keep goin’. You're spittin’ facts, [Cady laughs] and I'm eatin’ ‘em up. 

Cady Moore (32:48): Hell yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (32:49): I'm eating good today. 

Cady Moore (32:50): Yeah girl, eat up.

Sharilyn Wester (32:52): Yes, yapping… your yapping gives me pleasure.

Cady Moore (32:55): Well, I appreciate you. So, we're gonna all— Well, actually, all that's left before we dig into other contexts and we start kind of unpacking stuff, um, is just a little more on stress. And so again, [Sharilyn: Yeah.] I already mentioned Emily Nagoski's book “Burnout,” but in that she teaches about the stress response cycle, which is, um, it's… it’s pretty easy. There's the beginning of like, “Oops, I'm not safe.” And so like the best example is like being chased by an animal [Sharilyn: Mm.] because that is like quite literally what our nervous system biologically was designed to respond to.

Sharilyn Wester (33:31): Second animal attack mentioned in the podcast today. I love that.

[Cady laughs]

Cady Moore (33:37): I have a problem. [both laugh] Um, I like really do. It's fine. This is what I get for falling asleep to man-eating leopard stories. [Sharilyn laughs] But so beginning, “Ah! There's this animal. It's chasing me,” middle, “Let me run away— 

Sharilyn Wester (33:50): There's a man eating leopard! [laughs]

Cady Moore (33:52): “Let me run away from this animal.” And in the end, “Whoo, okay, I'm safe. I got away.” And the end of that, that response cycle is crucial. And because of the types of stress we are now engaging with, most of us are not completing that stress response cycle, and so we are staying in a constant state of action. “I'm running away, I'm running away, I'm running away.” And our bodies never get to hear, “Oh. Oh, I'm actually safe.” 

And so we have to build in time, space, and strategies for discharging our stress response cycle so that we can regulate our nervous system better. And that's why — I hate to fucking say it — but that's why exercise is something that is really important for our bodies. It is not about weight loss. It's not about control. It's about telling our bodies like, “Ooh, look, we ran away. We did the thing, and now we're safe. I'm done running now. Do you feel [Sharilyn: Wow.] my heart rate coming down? We're safe, we're good.” [Sharilyn: Mm.] And so when we're talking about chronic stress, mindfulness practices are an evidence-based strategy for managing chronic stress, such as exercise. Twenty minutes a day is enough, a walk around the block. Like what you can get into your life is enough; it's better than nothing. But 20 minutes a day is kind of the rule of thumb. 

And, um… Breathwork, meditation, mindfulness in general, mindful eating. Mindfulness practices, which — and we're gonna talk later about building mindful self-pleasure practices — but that's one of the ways to handle that chronic stress. You can also, a long hug, like a 20-second hug, dancing it out if you can't exercise for 20 minutes, like putting on a song and just like shaking it out, screaming into a pillow, punching a pillow. Anything that lets your body discharge excess energy [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] is a great way of reducing that stress so that we can be in a more neutral state to let our accelerators work.

Sharilyn Wester (36:03): I love that.

[theme song]

Emily Gay (36:17): What if you could unlock a life where pleasure wasn't just an afterthought but a priority? Hi, my name’s Emily. 

Cady Moore (36:22): And I'm Cady.

Emily Gay (36:23): And we're here to introduce you to the Pleasure Revolution, a self-paced journey to help you overcome barriers, understand your body, and build lasting joy.

Cady Moore (36:31): Created by two certified sex educators.

Emily Gay (36:33): That's us.

Cady Moore (36:34): Each lesson is packed with practical tools, journaling prompts, and hands-on activities designed to help you redefine what pleasure means to you.

Emily Gay (36:42): It’s time to prioritize you and the pleasure-filled life you deserve. Visit bit.ly slash the Pleasure Revolution to enroll now.

[theme song]

Cady Moore (37:01): Now, Sharilyn I know that you have some stuff to say about guilt, which is another context [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] that can really press down on those brakes.

Sharilyn Wester (37:12): Yeah, I think there's… I think there's a lot of ways in which like guilt can sometimes rob us from giving ourselves the space to do those things that help us receive pleasure, that help our stress levels lower so that we can receive pleasure. For me personally, that comes with parenting. If you're a parent, you have parental guilt of “why am I doing this for myself when I could be allocating resources to my children? Why am I spending— Why am I, you know, I'm going out and I'm leaving my kids behind with a babysitter, but I feel bad because I should be present with them.” Or, “I want to seek things that bring me pleasure as an individual for my own identity outside of being a parent.” And there's sometimes a twofold guilt that comes with that. 

That can also come within polyamory or monogamy with your partners, you know. [Cady: Mm-hmm.] “My partner's not super social, but I like to go out. And so I want to go out dancing, or I want to go play board games, or I want to go on solo trips or whatever.” And sometimes the guilt of what your partner's experience is feels more centered than what your experience is. And so those are two— Especially if some of your partners aren't having a great time in polyamory, it can be really hard when you are, whether that's going on dates with new people, having new experiences with others, growing, hitting relationship maybe milestones or areas that bring you joy with a specific partner that you don't experience with another partner. Those are all things that can add to the guilt that prevent us from really being present in our bodies and fully embracing and experience pleasure, for me. I don't know if you can think of any other areas of guilt that kind of come into play. I mean, I'm sure as well like generational parent-child things as well.

Cady Moore (38:56): I mean, no, I think you like really— [laughs] I was making so many facial expressions while you were saying that. [Sharilyn laughs] Yeah, because like when I think as soon as you brought up non-monogamy, I was like, “Oh God, definitely that.” [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] Like if I know that my partner has a really tough time when I'm with a particular partner, it's really hard for me to show up in the space with the partner that I'm with because I'm like… I'm actively thinking about the ways in which my other partner is going to be feeling, and like… and it makes it really hard to be present. And that brings it back to mindfulness really and like really doing your best to stay present and stay in the moment and staying focused on like what you can control and what you can't. And you can't control other people's reactions. [Sharilyn: Right.] But that is much easier said than done. 

Sharilyn Wester (39:46): Absolutely.

Cady Moore (39:48): Yeah, so that's what's coming up for me when it comes to guilt.

Sharilyn Wester (39:51): Yeah, I think for me also — and this could be… this is maybe like an intergenerational trauma thing — but feeling like you have to take care of your parents before you take care of yourself. I know in many cultures, um, it's kind of expected that you, as someone who is youthful and has the facilities, have to work hard in order to give back to your family, you know, helping your parents with debt or helping them out or being present for them for holidays. When like maybe what would bring you pleasure for a particular holiday or birthday is just like sitting around doing nothing or taking a solo trip. But feeling the expectations to do certain things, I think in many nuclear iterations that are imparted upon us and expectations, can rob us of really stepping into our own autonomy and pleasure that comes with that. 

Um, I think to segue or to transition into a little bit of like some of the bigger aspects that we face on more of like a macro level. When we're talking about pleasure, and we're talking about accessing pleasure in our day and age, I think there's a variety of things within our life that we interact with that maybe inhibit those that aren't necessarily strictly like non-monogamy or relationships like one to one. It's like bigger societal things. Cady, do you have a couple things that maybe come up with some of your education? [Cady: Yeah.] Again, we're talking about pleasure. We're not talking specifically about sex. We're talking about pleasure in all iterations of life.

Cady Moore (41:22): Yeah, I mean, well, I am going to talk about sex. [laughs]

Sharilyn Wester (41:25): Yeah, no, absolutely.

Cady Moore (41:27): But like, yes. Well, because here's— [exasperated sigh] Hmm. Are we going to talk about the church today? But really, like when we do talk about pleasure, when we are… when we are inundated with messages from purity culture that pleasure for our bodies is bad, that becomes directly associated to all versions of pleasure, not specifically sexual. So like sexual pleasure and pleasure as a whole is an inherent body autonomy issue, which means that it is an issue for everyone. 

Um, but I mean, I was specifically thinking of the lack of comprehensive sex education because [Sharilyn: Mm.] most… most Americans are not getting adequate sex education whatsoever. We are not being taught about our anatomies. We're not being taught about what feelings we can have. Um, like most of the sex education that's available in the United States at this point is either abstinence only or is like risk prevention. So it is here's how to not get STIs, here's how to not get pregnant. It's not here's how to feel good about this thing that is a normal biological experience for you to have as a human — if that's how your brain works, because asexual people do exist and their experience is important as well. But for the sake of this conversation, teaching how our bodies’ response to stimulus is… is a way of giving everybody body autonomy.

Um, and this is why so many women aren't experiencing… women and AFAB people aren't experiencing sexual pleasure and sexual gratification because most of us haven't even been taught about it. Like we don't know that the female arousal process can take up to 45 minutes. Like, and I can guarantee you — and I don't have the fact in front of me, but I used it as a Sex Ed Trivia question — that most foreplay is not 45 minutes. Like, usually it's between 5 and 15 minutes.

Cady Moore (43:41): All right, Cady here with an aside that while we cannot call it a scientific study, according to Adam and Eve's 2019 annual survey of 1,000 adults, 45% of adults said that their foreplay typically lasts 5 to 10 minutes, with 29% saying that it lasts from 10 to 20 minutes. Fourteen percent said that it was less than 5 minutes, and 12% said that their foreplay averaged for over 20 minutes. So not long enough.

Cady Moore (44:05): Which is just simply not enough. 

Sharilyn Wester (44:06): If at all.

Cady Moore (44:07): If at all, if at all. And not knowing how to advocate for yourself and how to communicate about what feels good for you prevents us from accessing that pleasure. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.] 

I think there's also so much stigma — bringing it kind of back to purity culture — there's so much social stigma about sexuality and about women's sexuality in particular that like either we are sexual beings to be idolized and objectified and wanted. [Sharilyn: Yep.] Or we are meant to hide that and keep it under wraps because we're supposed to be demure and mindful and not showcase ourselves and be modest, which leads to feelings of shame and guilt around experiencing pleasure. 

I work with clients who have never masturbated before because they associate masturbation with shame and with guilt and that experiencing sexual pleasure is bad. And they did not grow up in purity culture. Well, they didn't grow up in purity culture in that they didn't grow up in a church that was teaching them these things, but they grew up in purity culture in that anyone who grows up in America is growing up in purity culture in some capacity. [Sharilyn: Absolutely.] Um, so… And I wanna shout out Erica Smith. I don’t remember… I think her handle is Erica Smith educates; I will put it in the show notes. But she specifically focuses on purity culture, and she has a program called Purity Culture Dropout that is incredible for folks who are coming from the like church communities where this is so deeply ingrained into you. Um. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] Yeah, so… Hmm. [Sharilyn: Yeah, absolutely.]

That's the end of my soapbox for now, but I'm sure [Sharilyn: Yeah.] something else will come up. And that's not even getting onto like medical and health issues and… because I want to touch on that, too. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] But I want to check in before I keep yapping. [laughs]

Sharilyn Wester (46:06): Yeah. No, absolutely. No, I think it's really important to see how, um, like the way we internalize patriarchy and the way that like culture, either directly or indirectly informs our pleasure experience and ability to access pleasure as women and also as men, because patriarchy affects men as well. They have to be, you know, go 10 rounds back-to-back. [Cady: Mm-hmm.] They have to be a stallion in the sheets. 

Cady Moore (46:34): They have to be able to give you a good pounding. [chuckles]

Sharilyn Wester (46:36): Right, like 100%, you know? And so I think there's a lot of— I think that ties into one of the points I have, which is body image issues, which again, are informed through patriarchy, for men and women. You know, for me in particular with my experience with like fat phobia, internalized fat phobia, you know, I'm a plus-size woman. And sometimes during— When we're talking about sexual pleasure, in the past, I have felt very self conscious and worried about like, “Urgh, what do I look like? My belly rolls.” Or like, “How's this jiggling, or how's this sitting?” When like my partner's there because they enjoy me, and we're sharing an experience together. And they are feeling great, and I'm in my head about what I look like, which is not even maybe registering for them. So things that are informed through our culture, through body image stuff, self consciousness, fat phobia, standards that are reinforced through pornography or through media, through Instagram, TikTok, [Cady: Mm-hmm.] we're seeing, you know, people who maybe have bodies that are different than ours. It doesn't mean their bodies are bad if they're like shredded or women who get BBLs. Fuck yeah, like you look amazing. But we sometimes internalize our experience based on what we're exposed to. And again, shouting out to men, like pornography also can directly influence men [Cady: Mm-hmm, totally.] in feeling like they're not good enough in their bodies. [Cady: Yeah.] Or again, like we were talking about, they have to come in and [deeper voice] give the women a good pounding. [Cady: Mm-hmm.] [normal voice] And it doesn't always translate like that.

Cady Moore (48:11): There’s only been one male client that I've worked with where we have not had to start with “The Body is Not an Apology” by Sonya Renee Taylor [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] to unlearn that they are supposed to look a certain way in order to be worthy.

And I think that, um... Yeah, I mean, I know we talked about this with Jill a couple of weeks ago: Patriarchy fucks it up for men, too. [Sharilyn: Yeah.] And I really just, I just think that it cannot be understated that like men have body image issues also. [Sharilyn: Absolutely.] And I think that there's a lot less messaging out there for them in 2025. Like there's a lot less messaging out there about the fact that their bodies don't have to look a certain way either. So I just wanted to… [Sharilyn: Yeah.] I wanted to say that. And then, do you mind if I soapbox a little bit about health and medical stuff? 

Sharilyn Wester (49:00): Go ahead. 

Cady Moore (49:01): Okay.

Sharilyn Wester (49:02): Yeah, absolutely.

Cady Moore (49:03): Just because I think when we're talking about our bodies. One… one of the things that we were also doing to people by not teaching them that pleasure is good and safe is we're also removing a very important indicator of your wellness, like your physical and emotional well-being. Like if your libido dramatically drops, like that’s… that should be sending up alarms for you. But if you were in a society where having a sex drive at all is shamed, then you're not necessarily going to be noticing that. Um… [Sharilyn: Right.] And I think that there are so many — I think we talked about this in our ins and outs of 2025 — there are so many medications whose side effects decrease libido, and doctors don't even think to inform their patients about that. Or they don't even think to check in on like, “Oh, how's your sex life?” [Sharilyn: Yeah.] Like they might ask how your appetite is and how your sleep is, and then they leave it there. There's no “how's your sex life?” And I think that asking someone what their pleasure experience has been is really fucking important. [Sharilyn: Yeah.] And I think that the medical field in general is ignoring it. [Sharilyn: Absolutely.]

And I think The Pelvic People is the Instagram account that I'm thinking of, [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] but they make a lot of really funny memes that are like, they're funny, and also they make me so angry because women also experience health issues that can make penetrative sex really uncomfortable and painful. And that is treated like, “Well, just drink a glass of wine and close your eyes and think of England, and it'll be done soon. Like you'll be fine.” [Sharilyn: Yeah.] And it's like, no. You should be—

Sharilyn Wester (50:49): [mockingly] “Have you considered it's you having a period?”

Cady Moore (50:52): Like— Ugh! 

Sharilyn Wester (50:54): [mockingly] “You're overweight.”

Cady Moore (50:55): Mm, always— [exasperated] It’s— Oh, yeah, that's a… [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] that’s a thing that women— Yeah, yeah. And I know… I mean, I know that… I don't know that everyone listening to this knows, but I feel like the folks who listen to this like already know that, no, weight is not the first thing. Like your libido is not going to improve by losing weight, necessarily. I mean, maybe there are ways that that might impact it. But I mean, I'm sure there are. 

Sharilyn Wester (51:18): But it's not primarily, yeah.

Cady Moore (51:20): But the point is, is that when women come in to their doctor about a thing, the first answer is often, “Well, lose weight. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] And then we'll talk about it.” And it's like, well— Mmm-hmm-hmm-hmm. So that's— I just wanted to, while we were talking about… about body image [Sharilyn: Yeah.] and how we feel about our body, I was like I want to make sure that we touch on this. And then, I also want to [Sharilyn: Yeah.] just briefly say that if you are someone who's experiencing pelvic pain or like vaginal pain when you are having sex, there are options out there for you. Dilators are a great option. Working with a therapist or a coach that specializes in pelvic health is… is an option for you. [Sharilyn: Absolutely.] And I'll put some folks in the show notes. Okay. I'm done now.

Sharilyn Wester (52:10): Absolutely. [Cady laughs] No, I think that's great. I know for me also, like if you have given birth before — it's becoming a lot more commonplace in a lot of circles that I know accessing as like a parent — if you've given birth and you are still having issues around like pleasure, accessing pleasure, or pain, pelvic floor therapists are amazing. I actually saw one after my first. I had a couple sessions, and that really, really helped me. So yeah, accessing those things and being aware of your anatomy, I think is so, so key, and seeing how the two tie together. 

I think with accessing things like therapy and whatnot, I think that's a good transition to my point as well, which is economic and social inequality is also a barrier to accessing pleasure sometimes. When you have stress, when you have lack of access to healthcare, when you have inequality, when you are working long hours, when you are stressed about how to pay the bills or keep food on the table, sometimes the last thing you're thinking of is like, “Hmm, what's my microdose of joy today?” Do you know what I mean? And so this can be sexual, this can be otherwise. Basically, when your basic needs are unmet, it's harder to focus on other aspects of your wellbeing. And when we're thinking in a psy— You know, when we're considering the psychology and the wellness of someone and we're Maslow's hierarchy of needs, when you're at that base level, it's very hard to think of what comes next. So yeah, economic and social inequalities is also a big one.

Cady Moore (53:39): So let's take another quick sponsor break, and then we will come back, and we will talk about how to incorporate more pleasure into your life. And then we'll get into some fun sillies.

Sharilyn Wester (53:48): Yay! [triumphantly singing] Do-do-do-do, do, do!

[theme song]

Emily Gay (53:54): What if you could unlock a life where pleasure wasn't just an afterthought but a priority? Hi, my name’s Emily. 

Cady Moore (53:58): And I'm Cady.

Emily Gay (54:00): And we're here to introduce you to the Pleasure Revolution, a self-paced journey to help you overcome barriers, understand your body, and build lasting joy.

Cady Moore (54:08): Created by two certified sex educators.

Emily Gay (54:10): That's us.

Cady Moore (54:12): Each lesson is packed with practical tools, journaling prompts, and hands-on activities designed to help you redefine what pleasure means to you.

Emily Gay (54:20): It’s time to prioritize you and the pleasure-filled life you deserve. Visit bit.ly slash the Pleasure Revolution to enroll now.

[theme song]

Cady Moore (54:48): Welcome back, everyone. 

Sharilyn Wester (54:49): Okay, sup! [Cady laughs] Hope you had a little drink, a little snack. Wha— Did you get something that was pleasurable for you to eat? Are you savoring it right now? Are you sippin'— Are you having a little sippy sippies?

Cady Moore (54:59): I am havin’ little sippy sippies, and my sweet angel baby partner filled my water bottle for me and put ice in it, and so it's making noise. So I have to mute myself every time I take a drink. [both laugh] I'm like, “Don't mind me, just gonna mute myself so no one has to hear this.” 

Sharilyn Wester (55:14): “So no one has to hear this.”

Cady Moore (55:16): Yeah, but no, so we are— So, to wrap up our conversation about pleasure, Sharilyn and I are gonna talk about some ways that you can incorporate more pleasure into your day-to-day life without, you know, adding another thing to the list of things that you're trying to think about all the time. And as she already mentioned, you know, savoring your meals is definitely one of them. Like sitting down to eat your meal without a screen in front of you, without anything, without any other kind of distraction, and just like really actually enjoying it. It is also okay if like, you know, lunch is not that meal because you have other shit to do, that's totally fine, but it's finding opportunities throughout the day. So maybe it's one of your snacks. You make sure you take the opportunity to really sit with it and really, yeah, savor it.

Sharilyn Wester (56:05): One of my points is like elevating things that you interact with daily. So if you drink coffee every day, get yourself a little extra like syrup and like make your coffee a fancy coffee. If you hang out with your friends or you like to interact with your friends and that's something that brings you pleasure, make a virtual hangout around an activity you enjoy. If you like seeing plants in your house or flowers, pickin’ wildflowers when you see them, put one on your desk. It's about cultivating novelty within normalcy. 

And so when we're talking about interacting with food and savoring meals — I think we talked about it last episode — but we interact with food multiple times every day, [Cady: Mm-hmm.] and that becomes very normal. And so what are some ways in which you can elevate that experience, like savoring meals? [Cady: Mm-hmm.] So, and I know you have a point about some other stuff that we interact with daily.

Cady Moore (56:58): Yeah, no, I love… I love the idea of cultivating novelty within normalcy. 

Sharilyn Wester (57:03): And being mindful. Yes.

Cady Moore (57:06): Because one of the things that I have on here — and this was one of my top 10s of 2024 — I started taking more walks. And instead of taking a walk with my audiobook on — which is totally fine, and I still do that — but every now and then, I'll take a walk and like I leave my headphones off so that I can actually listen to what is around me. I can stop and look at all the flowers and take pictures of the flowers and be like, “Wow, look how pretty this is.” [Sharilyn: Yeah.] Another example that I've been using — and this is gonna sound so like goopy, like woo-woo, but it's really, it's true — I started incorporating like mindfulness and gratitude into my chores. [Sharilyn: Mm.] Like whenever I fold my laundry or hang up my laundry, I'm like, “Wow, I am so glad that I got to wear this.” Like I'm thinking of how grateful I am for it, or like who bought it for me and feeling gratitude for them, or whatever it may be. And again, I recognize that's a little, ugh… a little goopy, but—

Sharilyn Wester (58:14): No, I love that point. That makes me really happy. And I think like one thing I've been trying to do as well in finding pleasure and seeking out pleasure in mindfulness is just being like, “I feel so good today because I got a good sleep.” [Cady: Mmm.] I love the way my hair is sitting, little things like that. [Cady: Mm-hmm.] 

And I think like one of my points also — and I love your point about like trying, you know, instead of your typical hot girl walks, like trying to turn off things for a little bit — is trying new things to add to your roster of what you enjoy. [Cady: Mmm.] I mean, I think this doesn't have to necessarily be something that you need socioeconomic stability for. It can be something as simple, like you said, as taking a walk without music. If you really enjoy art, trying out a new art class or looking at, you know, YouTube University, going on a Bob Ross video and trying to follow along. Like, trying new things is a really good way of introducing new ways that you can find pleasure, and then incorporate those into your life. And again, finding novelty within normalcy for you I think is really good.

Cady Moore (59:25): And I think along with that, we also… like not treating your hobbies like they're a chore. [Sharilyn: Mmm.] Like, and I will say that I say this… I say this as an ADHD person who has a new hyper-fixation hobby all the time. So like, I recognize that some of it is feeling some guilt and shame of like, “Oh, I have this thing that I bought that I need to use.” But like, when you know that there is something that brings you joy and pleasure, scheduling the time for it, [Sharilyn: Ugh.] putting it on your calendar and saying, “I'm busy. I am actually booked on Thursday night. I am not seeing anyone else. I am not doing anything productive,” quote unquote. But rest is productive. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] “But I am doing this thing for myself. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] And so, sorry, I'm busy. I can't actually do that [Sharilyn: Yeah.] because I need to paint tonight, [Sharilyn: Yeah.] or I need to cross stitch or whatever. I need to work [laughs] on my Stardew farm.”

Sharilyn Wester (1:00:20): Yeah, you're like, “I'm sorry, I'm actually farming—” 

Cady Moore (1:00:24): “I'm farming.”

Sharilyn Wester (1:00:25): “From 7 to 9.” Um, yeah.

Cady Moore (1:00:26): “It's the first day of fall tonight. I... I got a lot of shit to do.”

Sharilyn Wester (1:00:30): “My communal compound, my Stardew compound, my barn-dominium is poppin’ tonight. I have to show up. I can’t.” 

Cady Moore (1:00:40): [laughing] “My barn-dominium.” 

Sharilyn Wester (1:00:41): My barn-dominium. It's like if you've seen “The Grinch” with Jim Carrey, and he's like, “No, I can't cancel on me again!” Yeah, stop canceling on yourself. [Cady: Ugh!] Like a hundred percent. 

Cady Moore (1:00:52): Yes! Stop canceling on yourself.

Sharilyn Wester (1:00:54): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I love that. Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. I've actually started doing that now where like, um, I recognize where I block off time for school, I block off time for partners or for friends or whatever, but I don't block off time for me. And then by the end of the week, I'm like, “Wow! My battery’s completely gone. I'm not, you know—” 

Cady Moore (1:01:15): “Jeez, I’m burnt out!”

Sharilyn Wester (1:01:16): Right. Now for this next week, I'm gonna show up all grumpy or not my best, fullest self, [Cady: Yeah.] and it's ‘cause I haven't scheduled that time for myself. So that's an amazing point.

Cady Moore (1:01:24): Yeah, it's really hard. It has taken me — I like don't know when this first started coming up in therapy — but it has been minimum two years [Sharilyn: Yeah.] that I have been trying to block time off for myself and actually treat it like it is scheduled time [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] and not schedule over it. [Sharilyn: Yes.] But we're getting there.

Sharilyn Wester (1:01:41): We're getting there. So there's a couple things we were talking about that bring us pleasure that are hyper fixations because as two ADHD kids, those things will fluctuate. I'll go first and start sharing mine. Um, there's two in particular they have to do with things I've seen on social media. One is videos of people harvesting wild clay and then making pottery out of them, and it's always really fun. Like I feel like a ba—

Cady Moore (1:02:05): Literally so cool.

Sharilyn Wester (1:02:08): It's so cool, and I feel like a baby with object permanence because once it goes into the kiln I'm like, “Oh. Oh, oh, oh. What's gonna happen? Is it gonna crack? Is this one gonna explode? The last one that she got from that riverbank exploded, and this one, I'm feeling good about this one.” And so that and like seeing them scoop it, and it's so aesthetic. Like it makes me want to go dig around in the dirt in my backyard. So that one is really big. 

Another one is… [chuckles] A lot of things that my algorithm is telling me I'm really enjoying that's reinforcing that I do find pleasure in it is people cracking Parmesan wheels, so Parmesan that has like sat and aged for a while. If you've never seen a Parmesan wheel, they're big, they're heavy. They look like a big, yellow, cheesy tire. There's videos of people at supermarkets where it's this big cheese wheel. It's like people who are working there who are like, “It's time to crack it,” and there's a big crowd. It's like people are waiting for like… a gender reveal party. And they put the knife in it, and they're sawing at it, and the anticipation's building. I'm like… it's like I don't know what's in there. It's cheese. It's Parmesan cheese. It looks the same, but it's still exciting. And so they're just like crackin’ it, and you see the split coming. And she's just getting in there, and she's like, “Ugh! Ugh!” Just seeing this feet of strength. Like she's cracking this cheese, and she opens, and it crumbles. And sometimes it's a really good crack, and then everyone claps, and we're just really excited. But yeah— [Cady: I love it.] Wild clay and parmesan cheese wheels openings, it's literally my version of a blind box for kids like, you know, the brain rot videos for kids. You’re like, “What's in the bag?” They're like, “What's in this wheel of cheese? It's still cheese,” but like— 

Cady Moore (1:03:43): It's cheese!

Sharilyn Wester (1:03:45): They make it exciting. I'm just like, “Yeah-ah-ah-hah-hah!” [laughs] So those are some of mine. What are some of yours?

Cady Moore (1:03:53): That reminds me of when I was on, when I think we all were on Lumberjack TikTok. [Sharilyn laughing: Lumber Tok.] Where it was like, “Why am I still watching this video when I know exactly what each split is gonna be like?” But then when you like really got into it, it was like different types of wood. And you'd be like, “Oh, this is good wood. This is gonna be a good one.”

Sharilyn Wester (1:04:11): Don’t intellectualize my brain rot! That makes it worse, then I feel like I'm actually learning something.

Cady Moore (1:04:15): Oh see, I loved it. [Sharilyn: Yeah.] I loved it. [both laugh] But of course I did. [Sharilyn: Yes.]

No, my current— I've been really, really, really into slime ASMR TikToks, like where they scoop the slime out and then put it… [shaking] Blugh-ugh. Ugh, it makes me feel so good.

Sharilyn Wester (1:04:24): Do you like touching slime, or do you just like watching the videos?

Cady Moore (1:04:28): I have only touched a slime from what I can really remember, besides like Silly Putty, and I did not like it. But I think that I would probably like this slime. [laughs] [Sharilyn: Mmm, okay.] But I don’t really know. 

Sharilyn Wester (1:04:42): Yeah, I've been seeing a lot of really cutesy slimes. Where it's like slime, [Cady: Uh-huh.] but they have like little like frappuccino things. [Cady: Yes.] And for me, it's like, I like looking at it, but for me, I… like we said earlier, everything I try and let go of has claw marks and teeth marks in it. [Cady: Mmm.] And so why do I wanna— So if I'm like mixing this up, then it's not gonna be this perfect, neat thing. [Cady: Oh, yeah.] It's gonna be this [hyped] sloppy mess! [normal voice] Anyway—

Cady Moore (1:05:15): Oh, yeah, yeah. No, see, I don't—

Sharilyn Wester (1:05:16): Slime Tok is a good one.

Cady Moore (1:05:17): Yeah, but now I kind of want to get some slime so [Sharilyn: Huh?] I can report back. We'll see. We'll see— 

Sharilyn Wester (1:05:23): Yes, I love that. 

Cady Moore (1:05:24): A little treat for myself. 

Sharilyn Wester (1:05:25): Trying new things. 

Cady Moore (1:05:26): [baby voice] Trying new things!

Sharilyn Wester (1:05:27): Trying new pleasurable activities. [Both: Yeah.] We are also— One thing that we're gonna talk about today on our Sillies is book-to-screen adaptations, good and bad. I feel like this one is relevant because Cady and I like so many of the same things because we're practically the same person, um—

Cady Moore (1:05:39): Same brain cell.

Sharilyn Wester (1:05:40): Just same brain, just different fonts. Um, there are—

Cady Moore (1:05:45): That's neat, and I like it.

Sharilyn Wester (1:05:47): I know! There are obviously like books that we cherish and we love that get translated into movie adaptations. So we're talking about ones that we feel are best, ones that are neutral, and some are worst. Cady, do you want to open it up? Do you want to crack this Parmesan wheel?

Cady Moore (1:06:02): I was gonna say, this was… this was sponsored by the fact that I am reading “Outlander” while watching the series for the second time, and I am finally to— For those of you who have both read and watched “Outlander,” um, I am starting “The Fiery Cross” now, which is book five, which lines up with season five. And book four really was a departure from the show in very big ways, and I'm starting to have beef with it. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] Which like up until now, I've been like, “Wow, they've done such a good job. This is amazing. I love Jamie and Claire,” which I do. So technically, “Outlander” is actually one of my neutral ones because I do think that the chemistry between Cla-... or not Claire, between Kat and Sam — that's the actual actors that play Jamie and Claire — is so, so, so good that like… [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] Good work. And the show itself is very visually good, and there are definitely certain characters who I really like. But I'm starting to get to some departures where I'm like, “I don't like that they did this differently.” And honestly, the biggest one is that their daugh— Oh! Ooh, spoiler! 

Sharilyn Wester (1:07:14): [singing] Spoiler! 

Cady Moore (1:07:15): Their daughter, Bri, is in the book, like 6 feet tall. Like she is very, very tall. And it comes up literally anytime she interacts with people her size is brought up. And in the show, she just isn't. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] Like she's like 5 foot 7 or something, um, or 5 foot 8. And I’m  like, “Dude, there was an opportunity to put a tall, broad-shouldered bitch in this role, and you really dropped the ball on that.” [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] And so I have some beef with that. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] Um, so I’ll start. So I'm actually starting with a neutral [Sharilyn: Mm.] because for me, “Outlander” was a good and now has gotten to like, [sings] I don't know how I feel about it.

Sharilyn Wester (1:07:55): Yes! Ooh, I love that.

Cady Moore (1:07:59): Yeah, so we'll see. And then, I know that we share some of our favorites, so I will let you… [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] I will let you take on the bests. [Sharilyn: Yeah.] [laughs]

Sharilyn Wester (1:08:01): Um, so… Well, actually, I'm going to start with the worst now [Cady: Ooh, okay.] because on the note of them changing characters in a show, I do have to sprinkle this one in. In the Percy Jackson movie that was released like 10 or 15 years ago, they cast Alexandra Daddario — who is beautiful in her own right — as Annabeth, who's one of the protagonists. And Annabeth is blonde and usually that stuff doesn't trip me up. I'm like, “Whatever, different eye color, hair color, race,” whatever it's like, doesn't matter. But it's a very— It’s reinforced constantly throughout the books that this is what she looks like, or this is her appearance, or whatever. Um, and when I had first saw it, I was like, [gloomily] “That's not Annabeth.” So now I'm okay with that. That movie in general is just a bad adaptation. 

But as far as good ones that I've really liked, where there has been differences in casting, “Pride and Prejudice” for me has been really, really good. [Cady: Mm-hmm.] I actually felt that they represented— 

Cady Moore (1:09:07): Hard agree.

Sharilyn Wester (1:09:09): Yeah, like, um… The actress who plays Jane, I'm blanking on her name. 

Cady Moore (1:09:16): Yeah, I don't have it either. 

Sharilyn Wester (1:09:17): Rosamund Pike? 

Cady Moore (1:09:18): Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (1:09:20): The perfect Jane. I loved how Keira Knightley was sassy and brash. She's a little more demure in the books, but “Pride and Prejudice,” [Cady: Yeah.] so good.

Cady Moore (1:09:27): And I think she's a little too pretty, and like, she's not supposed to be… she's not supposed to be hot.

Sharilyn Wester (1:09:33): Right, right, exactly. She's supposed to appear plain. And of course, you have Keira Knightley, and she's like, absolutely stunning bone structure. 

Cady Moore (1:09:38): Just the opposite of plain. [laughs]

Sharilyn Wester (1:09:40): Yeah, cheekbones boots the house down. And it was actually funny, I was talking with our friend MJ the other day because she just saw “Nosferatu,” which we talked about on our joint episode with her. And she was talking about how visually stunning it is. And I was like, “Yeah, ‘Nosferatu’ is like the Waluigi of ‘Pride and Prejudice’ as far as like it's visually stunning, but it's so dark. [chuckles] And ‘Pride and Prejudice’ is just so light and pretty and all of that.” So “Pride and Prejudice” is one of my best – 2005 with Keira Knightley — one of my best ones. What about you?

Cady Moore (1:10:10): I love, love, love, love the Greta Gerwig “Little Women.” [Sharilyn laughs] Like, just really love it. Um, I am a “Little Women” fan girl. It was— I read it for the first time in like sixth grade, and I loved it from the minute that I saw it. My mom is named after two characters, and I actually have… I have thoughts on it. I'm like, what weird characters to name her after, but it's fine. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] And I've always identified with all— Like, I've always been able to find parts of myself in all of them. And I just really… I really loved the Greta Gerwig reinterpretation. [Sharilyn: Me too.] I loved the way that they presented the storytelling. [Sharilyn: Me too.]  Like it didn't feel like— The ‘90s version was also a favorite of mine for a really long time, but it definitely was like, [robotic] “Here is the story,” [beeping noises] and it just gave it to you. And I really liked the way that they played with the chronology in the Greta Gerwig version of “Little Women.” So “Little Women” [Sharilyn: Ooh, yeah.] is on my... Yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (1:11:21): That one's so good. Yeah, I think for me as well, period pieces, “Bridgerton” has been really great. I think there's been so many upgrades to the series based on the books. Obviously, “Bridgerton” has been executed and produced in a way that involves an integrated and inclusive casting. The books make, obviously, no mention of this. They're pretty typical, fluffy period piece books, which I still adore because they're easy reads, and it's just escapism. But the series incorporates, you know, actors of color. It incorporates contemporary music but done in a classical way. It's shifted some of the dynamics, and it's introduced queer characters. So I feel like as far as adaptations goes, I love what “Bridgerton” has done for historical representations of storytelling. And I think it's the way they executed it has been really well done. So that's one of my best as well.

Cady Moore (1:12:22): Mm. I'm gonna jump to— [laughs] I think this might be a hot take for us. [Sharilyn: Oh.] Maybe, I don't know. I know you love the “Twilight” movies. Um, I hate them. Like, I watched them, but I was absolutely a “Twilight” girly like [Sharilyn: Same.] hardcore, and I was so stoked for those movies. And I was just… I was disappointed at the time, and then the older I get, the more disappointed I am. Because the more I'm like this… What? Literally, none of these characters are pretty enough. Like, [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] I don't understand. Could you not— [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] I don't understand why fucking Emmet isn't hot as fuck. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] Like, he is supposed to be hot. Why isn't he? [laughs]

Sharilyn Wester (1:13:08): Right, and I think also, [chuckles] obviously in hindsight, “Twilight” is very problematic. That this very old, unaging man is in high school preying on a 17-year-old. Like, fucking weird, right? And even for me as a 31-year-old woman, I wouldn't date anyone below 27. And so the fact… You know, it's pretty problematic. For me, I also was a big “Twilight” girlie. Hashtag team Edward, hashtag Edward forever, all of that. Yeah, I think my beef is um… I think the cultural experience around “Twilight" was really what gave me joy. [Cady: Mm-hmm.] And now rewatching, it's like you… you get to enjoy it for how cheesy [Cady: Yes, absolutely.] and kind of bad it is. But like, it's so nostalgic that it means something for you. That doesn't mean it's elevating into neutral status. It is still bad. [Cady laughs] It is still bad. I really wish we got some like— Let's get Denis Villeneuve with his cinematic vision behind a new “Twilight" series because I would love to see it really elevated. I think it'd be really cool. 

Cady Moore (1:14:05): Mmm, I actually wonder.

Sharilyn Wester (1:14:07): That is a great one. “Twilight”— Yeah! I think another bad one that I've beefed with, obviously — and I don't really need to go into context — it's the movie of “Avatar the Last Airbender.” I think it was in 2010. Horrible adaptation. We don't talk about it. It never happened. Yeah. What about you?

Cady Moore (1:14:25): That's how feel about “Eragon.” [Sharilyn: Mmm.] Like “The inheritance Series.” I loved those books, and I remember seeing “Eragon” and just being like, “Yeah, I'm out.” And I just didn't… [Sharilyn: Yeah.] I didn't, I didn't—

Sharilyn Wester (1:14:45): “I'm gone. I'm Era-gone.”

Cady Moore (1:14:47): Era-gone. [laughs]

Sharilyn Wester (1:14:49): [laughs] Sorry. “I'm an Era-goner.” [laughs]

Cady Moore (1:14:50): Yeah. Though one thing that's funny for me is that I do very consistently say “Eragon” when I mean Aragorn, which is my obvious segue to us both putting “Lord of the Rings” as one of our favorite adaptations. Um, I haven't… I will say I haven't read the books in really long time, [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] but I read them like multiple times in middle school and high school. [Sharilyn: Mm-hmm.] So it's been a very long time, like 20 years since I read them, almost. [Sharilyn: Absolutely.] So, I feel like I don't want to say anything and be wrong because I'm a Taurus, but I do remember— Like, I feel like one of the things that I loved about reading Tolkien was the way that he waxes on with imagery and really describes things. And I feel like the movie adaptations did a very good job of creating, visually, what we got from the books. 

Sharilyn Wester (1:15:46): A hundred percent. Oh my God, 100%. 

Cady Moore (1:15:49): But I need to be careful.

Sharilyn Wester (1:15:50): I agree, yeah. No, “Lord of the Rings.”

Cady Moore (1:15:51): And maybe reread them.

Sharilyn Wester (1:15:52): Yes, we should do a reread this year. I would love to do that with you. Yeah, for me, “Lord of the Rings” is a big one. I don't know if you can see actually, here. So I am a “Lord of the Rings” fanatic; I have been. My dad took me to see the first movie in theaters, the second movie, the third movie when I was little. And so that was like my first real deep dive into fantasy versus sci-fi [Cady: Mm, mm-hmm.] because I watched a lot of sci-fi stuff. I don't know if you can see here, I have a hobbit hole poster that I got from a con. My friend actually embroidered this hobbit hole. 

Cady Moore (1:16:22): Oh, that's so cute.

Sharilyn Wester (1:16:24): And then I have another friend who embroidered my favorite character in all of “Lord of the Rings,” it was just Treebeard. [Cady: Awe.] And I keep them, these little microdoses of joy. Um, I agree. I love it. I think the one thing that was only missing from it for me — obviously for cinematic purposes, you can't wax and wane — but there's a lot of musicality in “Lord of the Rings.” There's a lot of singing. [Cady: Yeah.] There's a lot of poetry. There's a lot of prose and all of that. So they had to cut some of that out. 

Cady Moore (1:16:47): And storytelling.

Sharilyn Wester (1:16:49): Storytelling, exactly. [Cady: Yeah.] I think on the flip side of that, one bad adaptation that I didn't like was “The Hobbit” movies. I did not like them as much. I didn't— 

Cady Moore (1:16:55): I haven't even seen them.

Sharilyn Wester (1:16:57): Yeah, honestly, um, I… Yeah, they really went— I mean, they were produced in like the 2010s, and so that was really when they're getting into a lot of CGI. And a lot of the magic of the makeup artistry and the VFX and all of that just kind of marred its splendor for me. And that's part of the reason why “Lord of the Rings” still held up is because, you know, you get [Cady: Yeah.] these amazing effects and visuals and all of that. Alls to say also—

Cady Moore (1:17:25): I have to say, I actually almost put…

Sharilyn Wester (1:17:27): Oh, go ahead.

Sharilyn Wester (1:17:28): I almost put CGI as an out for 2025 because after “Wicked” and after seeing something that had so little CGI in comparison with so many other movies, I'm like, I feel like I am over CGI. [Sharilyn: Yeah, absolutely.] Like I'm over it. I mean, I know that it does make certain things possible, but I'm kind of like, can we bring artistry back? That's not to say that CGI is not artistry. Don't get your panties in a wad, people. I get why it feels like artistry for some. I'm not trying to yuck any yums, but for myself personally, I want to see handcrafted shit. [Sharilyn: Yes.] Bring back artisanry. That's what it is. I want artisans.

Sharilyn Wester (1:18:11): Absolutely, let's get artisans. Let's get the bakers, the bread makers of VFX—

Cady Moore (1:18:17): Candle makers.

Sharilyn Wester (1:18:18): Back in work.

Cady Moore (1:18:19): All right, everybody, that is it for us for today. Thank you so much for joining in on the conversation about pleasure and our barriers to pleasure, how to access pleasure. As a shameless self-promotion, you can find a link to a “Building a Pleasure Practice Guide” that is all about building a practice for mindful masturbation. You can find that on my website, cadysmoore.com. I'll put a link in the show notes. If you want to follow along on Instagram for more conversations about pleasure, you can follow me @ageofsexploration. I will also be announcing there when our pleasure course goes live so you can get more information on that and how you can learn more about your pleasure. If you want to keep the conversation going with both of us, you can hit us up on Instagram, @kneedeeppodcast. You can share your thoughts, your stories, your questions. We'd love to hear from you. You can also send your listener questions to kneedeeppodcastmailbag@gmail.com.

Sharilyn Wester (1:19:15): And if this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend, leave us a review, or shout us out on social media because every little bit helps us what we do. You can also find us on Patreon for more bonus content.

Cady Moore (1:19:28): Until next time, stay curious and just remember your body, your choice, and you are worthy of pleasure. Pleasure is your birthright.

Sharilyn Wester (1:19:38): And thanks for tuning in everyone. Go find those microdoses of joy. Take care of yourselves and take care of each other. [singing] Goodbye.

Cady Moore (1:19:46): Sayonara. [laughs]

[theme song ending with robotic voice saying, “Knee Deep in the Passenger Seat”]