Knee Deep in the Trenches, Part 2 feat. Guest MJ Hetland aka @uterusnurse

Buckle up for a deep dive into the highs and lows of reproductive healthcare with special guest MJ Hetland (aka @uterusnurse)! From the behind-the-scenes realities of labor and delivery nursing to the systemic challenges around abortion access and maternal mortality, we’re unpacking it all.

MJ joins us to chat about the critical role of midwives, the overlooked significance of the APGAR score, and the fight for reproductive autonomy in a world full of healthcare hurdles. But don’t worry—it’s not all heavy! We mix in humor, personal stories, and some lighthearted fun, including book talk and playful Q&A to round it out.

Catch this episode for real talk, laughs, and a whole lot of heart.

Referenced in this Episode:

• Spinning Babies
• Jen Hamilton: @Jen_Hamilton on Instagram
• Dr. Jen Gunter @drjengunter on Instagram
• Jennifer Lincoln, MD, IBCLC @drjenniferlincoln on Instagram
• Bundle Birth Nurses @bundlebirthnurses on Instagram

Connect with MJ:

• Instagram: @UterusNurse
• TikTok: @MJHettie

Follow Us:

• Instagram: @KneeDeepPodcast
• TikTok: @KneeDeepPodcast
• Cady: @ageofsexploration
• Sharilyn: @queerwomenspoetrycollective

Support Us on Patreon:

Help us keep the conversation going by supporting us on Patreon! 🖤 

Send Us Your Questions or Comments:

We love hearing from you! Got a question or a topic you’d like us to cover? Email us at kneedeepodcastmailbag@gmail.com

Thanks for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review!

Transcript

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Transcript of Episode 4: Knee Deep in the Trenches Pt 2

Transcribed by Kris Joy

Sharilyn Wester (00:00)

What are they called? [Cady: The kolaches?] Foreskin is like a kaloche in the way that you have the great meat inside and you have a little bit of a nice outside to it that's also delightful.

Cady Moore (00:11)

Are you thinking of a knish?

Sharilyn Wester (00:13)

Kalashies, Kalashes, Kalosh?

Cady Moore (00:16)

Kolache Kolache, Kolache? How do you?

Sharilyn: (00:16)

Kalam? Kalam?

Cady Moore (00:18)

We're gonna do an aside here.

[Insert audio clip of someone reading the word correctly, pronounced “Ko-LA-chee”]

Sharilyn (00:22)

Honestly?

[Laugher]

Cady Moore (00:25)

Everybody, hello, welcome back to Knee Deep in the Passenger Seat. I am Cady

Sharilyn Wester (00:30)

[Laughs] I'm Sharilyn. We're here to talk about sex relationships, queer issues, and basically, [Cady: Foreskins] Foreskins all the spicy stuff that keeps life interesting. We are also in a silly, goofy mood today.

Cady Moore (00:52)

Yeah, it's “Knee deep in the passenger seat at night”, [Sharilyn: Yes] which means that my adderall has worn off. [Sharilyn: We’re uncut!] Yeah. [laughing] Oh my God. We're just going to making foreskin jokes all day, all night.

Sharilyn Wester (00:48)

[Laughs] I'm sorry.

[Intro music theme ending with the words “Knee deep in the passenger seat”.]

Cady Moore (01:30)

No, I mean, it's totally fine for so that those of you who want to want to know and want to be in on the joke, Sharilyn calls her pop filter on her microphone, her “microphone foreskin”. And that's how we got here but… [Laughs] And now she's playing with it.

Sharilyn Wester (01:47)

Sorry I'm actually peeling it back for those who can't see. I'm sorry. [Cady: I’m going to have to mute your track] You know what?  If I had a foreskin, I would play with it. The equivalent of some good flaps.

Cady Moore (02:03)

100%. No question. [Sharilyn: I would stim on it] My hands would be in my pants all the time [Sharilyn: They already are though] all the time. Yeah. All right. Well, let's bring it in. Today's episode is going to be very silly, which is actually a great companion to the kind of intense nature of the subject. This is our part two to our episode that we had a couple of weeks ago with Jill Lissner talking about abortion, reproductive justice. And we are here with our guest today to discuss more about reproductive healthcare from the point of view of an LND nurse, which if you aren't familiar, LND is labor and delivery.

Sharilyn Wester (02:33)

As a content warning, we will be discussing abortion, pregnancy, pregnancy loss, birth, maternal mortality, and women's health.So our guest this week has a wealth of knowledge on the subject and we're here to explore her journey to being a labor and delivery nurse and some insight into the medical approach to reproductive care. And of course, we're going to light it up with some sillies at the end.

Cady Moore (02:53)

So buckle up ya’ll, because we are getting knee deep in a conversation about the importance of reproductive autonomy, burnout in the nursing field, intersectionality in healthcare, and all things labor and delivery.

Sharilyn Wester (03:05)

So this week is our guest, MJ. Welcome, MJ. [Cady:Whoooo!] You might know her from her Instagram handle. It's @uterusnurse where she shares information on nursing, birth, abortion, women's health. She's actually a travel nurse most of the time. Was lover of Moo Deng is consistently dancing to MUNA and hates when her pipes burst in her apartment. [Laughter] And so with that. Part of our intro MJ is talking about what's in our passenger seat today and I was wondering if you would like to tell us a little bit about what's in your passenger seat today.

MJ (03:38)

God, physically, what isn’t in my passenger seat? 

[Laughter]

Cady Moore (03:44)

Damn, that's real as fuck.

MJ (03:48)

 I'm in the middle of a move for context for the listeners and [Sharilyn: Moving boxes] moving boxes, a makeup bag… hot Cheetos. But metaphorically… [Cady gasps] yeah, hot Cheetos. Spiritually... hot Cheetos, yes. 

Cady Moore (04:11)

I love it.

MJ (04:12)

Metaphorically, also, what is it in my passenger seat? I feel like this season of life, like you guys were talking about with your holiday episode, it's just been like, the end of the year comes to you like a train wreck. And I feel like I'm just like gathering my bearings again after the holidays.[Sharilyn: Right] Not that like I didn't have fun. I really enjoy the holidays. It's the one time of year that me and my sisters were all together and my niece and we had a blast, but it's just a lot when there's so much going on and also regular life responsibilities are continuing on because capitalism never stops.[Cady: Hmm, ain't that the truth.]   yeah, I'm happy to be settling down after all of that. Yeah.

Cady Moore (04:49)

Absolutely 

Sharilyn Wester (04:52)

I feel like when the holidays come around, it's kind of like all the pressures of life don't stop, but life just like slaps some like tinsel on your ass and says, “be fucking jolly”. 

[Laughter]

And you're like, “I can't” yeah.

MJ (05:04)

Yeah, be jolly, take time off, but pay all of your bills [Sharilyn: Yah] and also get drunk like way too much. [Sharilyn: 100%] Way too much alcohol.

Cady Moore (05:17)

I have the fattest zit on my chin and I'm like, [Sharilyn: I have one right here]  “oh this is from the literal quart [MJ: I have one right here!] of eggnog that I drank in the last two weeks. 

[Laughter]

I have had so much eggnog. [Sharilyn: the quarts I’ve been guzzling] I'm like, right, dairy.

MJ (05:35)

I wish I could blame the eggnog, but I have PCOS, so it's probably just that.

Sharilyn Wester (05:35)

Yeah, yeah, that song famously said blame it on the nog.

Cady Moore (05:35)

Those dang androgens.

MJ (05:44)

I do not like the androgens. My body does not like the androgens, you guys.

Sharilyn Wester (05:50)

Ugh.

Cady Moore (05:51)

So Sharilyn, what's in your passenger seat today?

Sharilyn Wester (05:48)

So also, I wouldn't say it's in my passenger seat anymore, but definitely like a Cheetos bag blowing in the wind, like a la Katy Perry's, “do you ever feel like a plastic bag?” Mine's a hot Cheetos bag, so it's just drifting, doing circles. I am so discombobulated because of the break, because doing school full time and then parenting also pretty much full time is just, like it's such a paradigm shift within my day all week long and without it I've kind of… I was really looking forward to having so much open free time and I have used it in a lot of good bed rot ways as much as you can when you're a parent, but honestly just not enough.

Sharilyn Wester (6:30)

and so school for me starts next week and I was just doing all my prep stuff for that today and getting a little overwhelmed already but on the plus side my sister's coming from Canada on Wednesday and we're gonna go to New Orleans. And so I'm really looking forward to that. It's going to be a little hard juggling the beginning of semester and like a trip, but you know what? You can't stop - you can't hold me down. I'm just, I'm gone on the wind like a Cheetos bag like Katy Perry said [giggles] to bring it full circle.  [Laughter]  Cady what about you? - 

MJ (07:06)

We support this.

Sharilyn Wester (7:08)

Thank you so much. What's in what's in your passenger seat?

Cady Moore (07:11)

Today and every day for the last six to nine weeks is Stardew Valley [Laughs]. I have been putting work on my farms. I have multiple farms now. I finished one and was like, well, better go fix all my other ones. So we've just been farming fiends. And it's really funny because I'm like, OK, I'm like, I'm tired, I’m ready to be off my screen… *goes to decompress with another screen.* Ugh, I don't want to do chores anymore. [Sharilyn: Yea] Let me go do chores on my fake farm. It's like, [Laughs] who knows? But it's the dopamine. It's so good and it's so cute. And I have a little cat named Miso.

Sharilyn Wester (07:57)

Miso is perfect. I would die for him. I love that Stardew Valley makes a really cute and accessible way of cosplaying the proletariat of any society. [Laughter] I love that it makes it accessible to go back to farm, because we yearn for the farm.

Cady Moore (08:16)

I yearn for the farm literally every day. And I just have to remember that every time I'm yearning for the farm, it is not nearly as easy as Stardew Valley. And I will definitely not be able to have my clicky clackies with me if I do that. [Mhm] So I don't know, I have to choose. Can I be high femme and a farmer? [Shariyn: I believe in you. Adapt. Overcome.] I don't know.

MJ (08:40)

Yearn for the cute farming games.

Sharilyn Wester (08:42)

Absolutely. The high femme farm. Yearn for the cute farming games. Honestly, I feel like the next evolution in being, like, obviously, like a sex educator is becoming a femme gay farmer. Do you have a Subaru now, right?

Cady Moore (08:59)

I've always had a Subaru, but yes, I do have a Subaru.

Sharilyn Wester (09:02)

Yeah, see if you were an anamorph you would be like halfway through the like horse and woman like transformation process and I love that for you.

Cady Moore (09:09)

Have we talked about my dream car? I don't think we have. So my dream car is a lifted pink glitter wrapped pickup truck with a vulva hitch cover and a gun rack on the back that will not ever have guns in it. I mean, maybe it will. I don't know. Whoknows? Shit's getting weird. But it just has a giant sticker that says “guns and titties” on it. And it's all I want, even though I know it is the most like unnecessary thing. I don't need a truck. Like I don't, I don't need a truck. I really don't. But I want one.

Sharilyn Wester (09:42)

I'm telling you right now, if someone pulled up to me in that truck and told me that we're going into battle, I wouldn't question it. I would just start running wherever they told me to. I don't care what battle it is. [Cady laughs] If you summon me, I'm going to war. This like, yeah, absolutely…

Cady Moore (09:57)

You'll man the gun rack? You'll woman the gun rack.

Sharilyn Wester (09:52)

Yeah, I mean, I'm great with a rack, let me tell you. So…

Gay, okay. What are some highs and lows of your guys' week this week?

MJ (10:07)

Low, definitely coming back to find that my apartment had flooded. Hi! My stuff was not in there.

Sharilyn Wester (10:17)

Boo! Oh my god. I'm so glad that your stuff was out of there [MJ: Me too] but still, like, the last thing you want to deal with - Like, moving already is so many thousands of mini, like, little things, and then just to have that... Yeah.

MJ (10:31)

Yeah,not great. So happy my stuff wasn't in there. Also, I live in LA now. So that's kind of cool, I think, for a little bit. 

Cady Moore (10:41)

Yeah! Which part of LA are you in?

Sharilyn Wester (10:42)

You're that girl!

MJ (10:45)

I'm that girl. I'm in Atwater Village. My sister was making fun of me. She was like, are you going to Echo Park? And I was like, I'm not that kind of bisexual yet. [Cady laughs: but you’re adjacent!] I'm bi adjacent. Yeah.

Cady Moore (10:59)

I’m so excited - That neighborhood is so good. [MJ: It’s very cute] That's where we stayed when we were in town for MUNA Yeah. Yeah, baby.

MJ (11:12)

Yeah, I'm actually wearing the necklace that we bought when we went to see MUNA.

[Everyone “aaw”s]

Cady Moore (11:16)

You're so stinkin cute. Omy heart. Oh my gosh. I love this for you. I'm have to visit you and we'll go to “Wine and Eggs” and buy overly priced delicious things. Hell Yeah. Sharilyn, what about you?

Sharilyn Wester (11:32)

Ummm I saw Nosferatu las week and it was so good and I won't give any spoilers but I will say if you are a former like goth girlie, if you like dark romance books, if you like gothic horror, if you are a film buff go see it. 

Cady Moore (11:56)

Is there vampire sex?

Sharilyn Wester (11:57)

I can't say anything. I signed an NDA. 

Cady Moore (12:00)

But it's all about vampires, right? So there's gotta be some - 

Sharilyn Wester (12:03)

Nosferatu was like the kind of original iteration of vampires [Cady: The Vampire] in cinema and it was actually really scary like back when it was like silent films in black and white. Tale as old as time.

Cady Moore (12:18)

Yeah, I remember he had a cameo in Spongebob also.

MJ (12:19)

I was just gonna say [laughs].

Cady Moore (12:22)

Yeah, I remember that's the role that I know Nosferatu from.

MJ (12:26)

Nosferatu!

[Cut to audio clip of character saying “If that was you on the phone and you on the bus, then who was flickering the lights?”

(Audio of lights turning off and on with electricity sparks. It sounds like something falls into water and instrumental music plays. 

A group says “Nosferatu!’]

Sharilyn Wester (12:49)

Exactly. So this is like a really, really modern, like remake of the original story, which is like old school kind of Dracula, like he's not beautiful. He's not glorified in a lot of the ways that like cinematic vampires have been currently or like contemporary media. This goes back to like -

Cady Moore (13:06)

So his skin does not sparkle?

Sharilyn Wester (13:09)

No, his skin does not sparkle. No, it has maggots in it. So it's like he's like the original like kind of monster. 

Cady Moore (13:12)

[Shocked] What? You said no spoilers.

Sharilyn Wester (13:15)

But I mean, you can see it in the previews. [Cady: Ok]He's kind of decrepit. But it was so good. I there's so much allegory. So if you like watching films that you really have to sit with after and like talk to someone about go see it with a friend. And I just highly recommend it. What about you, Cady? What is a high and low of your week?

Cady Moore (13:38)

My high was… I spent like a solid chunk of time organizing all of my crystals and like rewriting out my little reference sheet of what they all do because I was working on making a new altar and I was like, I don't remember what half of these things are. [Sharilyn: So it was really fun to like touch them all and like [silly voice] hang out with them for a bit. I really liked it.

Sharilyn Wester (14:12)

Stim a little bit?

Cady Moore (14:13)

Yeah stimmy little girl, all my tumbled rocks.

Sharilyn Wester (14:15)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Cady Moore (14:17)

Yeah and my low is that I am on day 31 of my cycle. My period is still not here and I'm so angry. I am six days late and if I didn't have fallopian tubes or - if I still had my fallopian tubes, I would be like, “what the fuck is happening?” [MJ: I was about to say] But I don't have those anymore. So I'm just like, dude, I know it's been a hard month. We get it.

Cady Moore (14:39)

But did you really have to delay ovulation this much? I don't know. [Sharilyn: Right, right, right, right, right, right] I'm real grumpy about it. I just need to bleed. I'm like, I need someone to fuck my period out of me. 

[Laughter]

You know how sometimes your period is like, it doesn't start until you get a real nice solid wienering with, it could be fingers, doesn't have to be a literal wiener, but you know, I hate that word. I don't know why I chose it, but it's in it now and I'm obviously not cutting that so -

Sharilyn Wester (15:00)

I love that - wienering. Well actually, MJ, because you are [giggles] obviously an Ellen Dean-ers, can you confirm to the people yes or no, does a mighty wienering start a period, can it?

MJ (15:10)

A mighty weiner can do a lot of things. We get…

[Laughter]

MJ (15:18)

Yes it probably can. I mean - I don't know like what the actual data is on that, but we do get a lot of patients that come into triage when they're pregnant that have like light cervical bleeding or like get contractions and they're like,oh  is this labor? It's like, no, you just, you had sex. 

Cady Moore (15:37)

You just had really good dickin' down.

Sharilyn Wester (15:45)

Yeah I heard once that dentists can see when you've had a little fun action in the throat because there's bruising. [MJ: I believe it] Yeah, sometimes they'll be bruising when they open up.

MJ (15:57)

That makes sense. I'm gonna have to ask my dentist friend about that.

[Laughter]

Cady Moore (16:00)

Yes, we'll interview them for the pod too. And the only question we'll ask is, have you ever seen someone with a bruised esophagus from some incredibly intense fellatio?

[Laughter]

Please, have you? Fellatio.

MJ (16:12)

He'll probably be like, yeah. 

Sharilyn Wester (16:14)

Fallatio. Yeah, fellated throat trauma.

[Instrumental Music]

Cady Moore (16:23)

So, MJ why don't you tell us a little bit about your journey and how you found yourself in labor and delivery as a field, because you talk about kind of getting so specialized. How did you land there? Give us a little bit of your story.

MJ (16:37)

Yeah, it’s funny because I actually taught second grade for like a quick second before I got into nursing school.

Cady Moore (16:45)

Very, very similar to labor and delivery.

MJ (16:47)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. just I've always, I guess, gravitated towards these like maternal roles, [Laughs] which is interesting - or just like roles that I feel like society expect us to fit in, which is something I probably need to unpack with my therapist but - [laughs].

Cady Moore (17:09)

Our caregiver.

Sharilyn Wester (17:10)

Same, oh my God, we'll both do it and report back.

MJ (17:14)

Yeah, I will report back. And I think that maybe it's like an eldest sister - 

Cady Moore (17:18)

I was just gonna say also eldest daughter shit - 

MJ (17:20)

Of an immigrant. Yeah. Yeah. All those things. But anyways, I actually went into nursing school thinking like I wanted to be pediatric nurse. And then I realized I want nothing to do with that because I was so used to like healthy kids in normal, happy homes and good environments. And pediatric nursing is a lot of so many things that are so far removed from that, like a lot of really sad stuff that I just don't really have the stomach for. 

MJ (17:49)

Didn't / don't have the stomach for. And I got into nursing school. I started in 2019 and the pandemic started halfway through my second semester. I remember we went to spring break and I was like, see you guys, Bye! I can't wait to take a week off. And then we just never went back in person until like my last semester of nursing school. And even that was still pretty hybrid. [Sharilyn: Wow] So that was intense. And at that point, after usually after one semester of nursing school, you're able to go work in the hospital and some type of clinical role. So I did like certified nursing assistant type of role I was working on a telemetry unit, which is like cardiac nursing when the pandemic happened. 

MJ (18:20)

And that was just very earth shattering in so many different ways which is a whole other subject that I won't take us down that tangent because I could talk about it forever. It was a really, really life changing experience. And by the end of nursing school, I was feeling pretty burnt out from everything that I had experienced while I was also trying to just like survive nursing school, which feels sort of like boot camp. It's really intense. [Sharilyn: Yeah] If you talk to any nurse, like they have like PTSD from it. [Sharilyn: No, 100%. Yeah, absolutely.] It's it's pretty crazy. So I definitely just wanted to switch gears.

MJ (18:55)

And my OB rotation, my obstetric rotation, I wasn't able to have my clinicals in person because everything was still like pretty shut down and they weren't letting students from my school into the hospital. But I worked at the same hospital where my clinical instructor was a manager or I think she was just a charge nurse there. But I talked to her and she let me like do my preceptorship with her. And I remember my first shift, I saw my first delivery and I was like, this is it. This is what I want to do. I don't know what happened. It like, was a calling, I never felt that way about anything else before. And yeah, I got out of nursing school. 

MJ (19:32)

I worked for like six months in this weird role. They were trying to basically create a role for new grads so they could start as a float nurse, which is super inappropriate and should have been my first red flag because you really need to start somewhere where you build a foundation and then you're able to float and work on other units. Anyways, they were training me to work on the telemetry unit and then a step down. And I also had just like a teeny, teeny bit of ICU training. Totally not enough to even be remotely sufficient to work in any kind of critical care unit. But we had a lot of COVID at that time. And usually once COVID patients are in the ICU, they're pretty easy to take care of. Like the care is really straightforward. You're doing like Q two hour turns and they're all in the same meds and drips. And it's like - 

Cady Moore (20:23)

What's a two hour turn?

MJ (20:25)

Oh it mean, every two hours, like you're turning the patient so they don't get bed sores. Yeah. [Cady: Yeah. got it. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.] Just, kind of really standard, standard care. [Cady: Also, what's a charge nurse? I know nothing.] A charge. No, no, you're fine. I know I have a lot of like medical lingo. So please stop me and ask me to explain anything when I get to medical in that brain. Cause I know it's like a totally different language, but every unit has a charge nurse. Sometimes there's multiple charge nurses on if it's like a really large unit, depending on how many beds are in it. And they're essentially just kind of overseeing all the nurses that are working on that shift and making sure that like - they have everything they need, that the patients are getting like the appropriate care that they need to receive. The doctors kind of all interact with them as well.

Cady Moore (21:07)

So they lead the charge [MJ: Yeah essentially] into battle [MJ: Exactly] in the pink pickup truck.

MJ (21:14)

They’ll like, make the assignments for the shift and the pink pickup truck and all that.

[Laughter]

Cady Moore (21:19)

So they're good person to be friends with or to like have a good relationship with.

MJ (21:23)

Some of them, yeah.

[Laughter]

Sharilyn Wester (21:27)

I've heard raps about charge nurses being notoriously grumpy because just the demands of the position are overwhelming.

MJ (21:33)

Oh it sucks, you guys. I was a charge nurse for like months this year. And that's what like made me be like, F this, I'm leaving, I'm going to travel because the pay increase you get is not worth the amount of responsibility and like stress that you end up having to take on as a charge nurse, especially on night shift where like there aren't administrators who are readily available. There's less staffing. There's smaller rapid response teams, which are teams of like critical care nurses and like doctors and respiratory therapists that will come to your unit if your patient is decompensating and they need like to be evaluated to see if they need any type of like intervention to prevent them from having like a bad outcome essentially or like coding. So yeah, just less resources. It's just generally pretty scary. And I have some fun stories from that as well.

Sharilyn Wester (22:35)

So it sounds like obviously nursing school was not the experience you wanted it to be [MJ: Oh yeah] and following that, some of your experiences also weren't what you were expecting, [MJ: totally] especially just kind of getting thrown around. What does a day in the life for you look like now that you're kind of settled into working with L &D and especially now that you've been a travel nurse for a little bit?

MJ (22:56)

Yeah, and I'm sorry I went on a little bit of a tangent there at the end with the COVID stuff. I didn't even like bring the story full circle.

Sharilyn Wester (23:00)

No, you're totally fine.

Cady Moore (23:01)

This whole, this podcast is a tangent pod, like, yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (23:04)

Absolutely.

MJ (23:06)

We're just three girlies with ADHD trying to survive every day.

Sharilyn Wester (23:09)

100%. Three yappers in a barrel.

Cady Moore (23:09)

and our Adderall has all worn off.

Sharilyn Wester (23:10)

Yes.

[Laughter]

MJ (23:13)

It’s been a long day.

Cady Moore (23:14)

Wait, what? Did you say Sharilyn?

Sharilyn Wester (23:15)

We're just three yappers in a barrel and someone's trying to shoot us. 

[Laughter]

That person, cis het men. 

[Laughter]

No, okay.

Cady Moore (23:30)

Little real baby, a little real.

Sharilyn Wester (23:32)

We're keeping it real. But yes, tell us about a day in the life for you as a travel nurse, as an L &D nurse. Obviously you went into school having certain expectations of what your experience was gonna look like. That completely got turned on its head. Afterwards, working in some places, that got turned on its head. So where have you kind of landed in your career? And what does that look like?

MJ (23:52)

Yeah, so after that quick stint of this weird role they were trying to create at this hospital that was very wrong for me, I just knew I needed to get out of there. I wasn't learning anything. I felt like my license was at risk because I was being left unsupervised at times, or I had preceptors who are nurses who train new hires who had their own assignment, which is super inappropriate. Their assignment should never be different than yours. You should have the same assignment and they should be overseeing everything that you're doing. I decided to leave and I landed a job in labor and delivery and I never looked back. 

MJ (24:29)

I worked at this hospital for two and a half years and I had a really good orientation with a great preceptor and a lot of support. So I stayed there for two and a half years and then ultimately just decided to leave and go travel nurse because the money really is a lot better and there's less hospital drama. There's a lot of reasons why anyone might want to travel nurse and I can go into that another time. But a day in the life for me is either if I'm starting a run of shifts - because I work night shift -I will take like a nap in the afternoon, like for two hours ish. If I get up like eight, or I'll try to sleep into like 11 or 12. But that usually doesn't work [laughs]

MJ (25:16)

So I get up at my normal time and then take a nap in the afternoon. And then I'll like make dinner and then go to work. And I try to get there early enough that I can like have a coffee and just sit in my car for like 10 minutes before I have to walk in. And then I walk up to the unit and change. And we have like shift change. There's usually some type of huddle, which is where like the charge nurse will get all the team together who's working that night and kind of talk about what's happening on the unit and give assignments out.

Cady Moore (25:42)

Can I actually ask a question? [MJ: Yeah] Ok going back a little bit, because you mentioned, you said that you get there and you like give yourself like 10 minutes to just sit in your car. I've noticed that's like a thing. [MJ:Mhm] Like, like that nurses like chill in their car before they go into shift. Is that like you like putting your game face on? Are you like zoning the fuck out? Are you like, what, what, what's the magic there?

MJ (26:07)

Yeah. It's a little bit of both. It's like the calm before the storm because there are so many sensory overload [Cady: Mmm, oof, yeah] things that are happening on a unit at any given time. There's IV pumps beeping. have continuous fetal heart monitoring. So there's monitors everywhere. And if like the fetal heart rate drops too low or it like loses contact so we don't see the baby's heart rate or like the maternal heart rate jumps really high, like it'll alarm for various reasons.

MJ (26:25)

And we basically just hear like beeping all shift long, [Cady: Oof] like call lights, IV pumps, phones ringing. [Cady: That’'s overstimulating is hell]  Yeah, our units are locked because of the risk of child abduction. So there's doorbells that go off. There's the triage phone line going off. We, depending on where you are, like the first hospital I worked at had these little like walkie talkie devices called voceras that you literally can press a button and call anyone from. So that can ring at any point. The last hospital I was at, had like our own personal cell phones that can also ring at any point. Like you get text messages. It's just- [Cady: Hello no].

MJ (27:02)

t's so much and you literally have to like be “on” for every moment that you're there because something could be so chill. Like your patient is fine one second and then the next  all of sudden they're decompensating and you're running in the room. And I've been in situations where we're all sitting at the desk one minute and then the next minute someone has an emergency and we're flying back to the OR. Or there's someone that comes in and they're like about to blow a baby out. And we call that a stop and drop, which I actually find really fun. Stop and drop.[Cady: That's so awesome! Stop it! Blow a baby out!] Literally, they're like, I have to poop. I'm like, “somebody get a room ready.”

Cady Moore (27:46)

No you don't! That's your baby! You're gonna poop a child!

MJ (27:38)

Yeah, yeah. Pretty much. So yeah, it's kind of it's very overwhelming. And I feel like I do have to kind of like turn my regular personality off and like switch into like this alternate personality that I have [Cady: It's like a ritual] Totally. I really like separate the two parts of my life in my brain because if I don't, it just gets really hard like things start to merge together in ways that like trauma will show up more in your day to day life [Cady: Mhm] and you just have to kind of learn how to dissociate and I think the pandemic unfortunately made me really really good at that.

Cady Moore (28:23)

Mm, yeah. Okay, thank you for indulging my tangent. [MJ: Yeah] You were talking about the huddle. You go up and change and then you have a group huddle with your team for your shift.

MJ (28:34)

Yeah. Yeah. And they'll just like talk about announcements or whatever. Like we're now doing this medication and in this formulation and you have to order it from the pharmacy this way or whatever. And then I'll go and get report from whoever is taking care of the patient that I'm taking over on. So like we'll go to the room and they prefer you to go and give bedside report in front of the patient. But I'm a type B nurse and we don't all do that all the time, but you're supposed to [Cady laughs]

MJ (29:00)

Sometimes there is just like pieces information that the patient can help you clarify. So it does have like a good reason that you wanna do that. And then there are some situations where like the vibe is just not good in that room for whatever reason. Like this patient had a birth plan -

Cady Moore (29:14)

You're like, girl, I need the tea. What's going on with this pregnant girl?

MJ (29:21)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's drama for whatever reason or they're not happy with the care they've been receiving. So it's sometimes a little bit easier to talk about certain things or sometimes they even have patients that they have like a positive HSV diagnosis and they don't want their partner to know. And so we're kind of hey, don't bring this up in front of the FOB, (the father of the baby) which puts us in really uncomfortable situations and it feels unethical in its own way. But yeah, so then I get report. I like introduce myself to my patient, say hi, I'm gonna be your nurse tonight. I'll do my initial assessment. So we do what's called like a head to toe. 

MJ (29:54)

And we just literally look at our patient, like examine everything like head to toe, but it tends to be a little bit more focused in obstetrics. Like I'm not super concerned about their neurological status unless they're on like a magnesium drip, which we often do for patients who are like severely pre-clamptic to prevent them from having a seizure. So yeah, there's just all sorts of things that we take a peek at.[Cady: Cool. My eyes went, whoa, that's cool.] Yeah. No, those drips suck. They I've heard that they're, mean, they look really, uncomfortable for the patient. They're like sweating and they can make you feel little bit like groggy and the baby looks kind of sleepy on the monitor. So it's not a very fun situation to be in. And then- 

Cady Moore (30:27)

I think it's more the idea that like - and I feel a little silly saying - but modern medicine is just super fucking interesting to me. [MJ: It’s very…] Cause I'm like the fact that we've figured out how to keep someone who has pre-eclampsia safe. I don't know, we're at spoiler alert y'all. We're going to talk about maternal mortality at some point in this episode, I'm sure. But I just think about the health outcomes that must have been so different before we knew some of this stuff.

Sharilyn Wester (31:06)

I was a pre-eclampsia baby! 

MJ (31:08)

Were you? Aw! And here, you're still here.

Cady Moore (31:10)

Like as a mom?

Sharilyn Wester (31:11)

No like a baby. I was supposed to be born on Christmas and I was born November 23rd. So I came early. 

MJ (31:21)

Let's go Sage season.

Sharilyn 31:24)

[Sing song voice] Sag season!

Cady Moore (31:25)

My gosh, we have two Sagis here tonight, I forgot. My Leo Moon sees you and loves you, hello.

MJ (31:28)

That's so Sagittarius of you to be born.

Sharilyn Wester (31:29)

Also, me and MJ's - I think our placements are pretty similar right? Like Your moon… remind me of your placements

Cady Moore (31:42)

She's whipping out CoStar.

MJ (31:43)

Oooh my moon is a Virgo and then my rising is Gemini.

Sharilyn Wester (31:50)

Yeah. Okay, I think my rising might be Virgo. I think my moon might be Aries. I need to see. I'm redownloading it. [MJ: Whipping out the co-star!] But yes, whipping out the co-star. 

Yeah, I think kind of follow up what Cady was saying like modern medicine and like seeing how- and although obviously childbirth is still like, you're always at risk for issues coming up- and I know especially in the US, maternal mortality rates aren't necessarily insignificant, it's always a risk. The kinds of things that they can do as far as intervention is crazy. And also one thing that was crazy for me was the ways in which depending on where you give birth, sometimes they might actually be a little more old school.

Sharilyn Wester (32:46)

With my first daughter I had a doctor- a male doctor - who treated me like shit. My second daughter I had a midwife and her nurse team and they were the experiences were completely different. They had this cool old school like stool I could birthing stool I could sit on when I was laboring. They had me in a tub (MJ: Yeaah!] Like it it was so Different and so yeah, so I think it's really cool like both experiences, like my first one felt highly clinical. My second one felt a little more grounded in like, in the birthing process for me. So like, have, has your experience in L&D changed the way that you perceive, like the childbirth experience or the woman's experience in these situations? And what are some things that some people might not anticipate are issues within the field of L &D?

MJ (33:40)

That's such a good question. I’m so glad you brought that up too, because this was something I was thinking about that I wanted to talk about with you guys. And to answer part of your question first is that I feel like I knew nothing about childbirth before going into like L &D nursing. And even in nursing school, we barely scratched the surface. Like we learn the bare minimum about childbirth and fetal heart monitoring. And I didn't even know like there's crazy pathophysiology in the placenta that can cause things like pre-eclampsia or even stillbirth, unfortunately. And like at a certain point during pregnancy, it starts to calcify and not be as like efficient at doing its job of helping perfuse blood to the baby. 

MJ (34:24)

Which is why I like going beyond your due date can be a little bit dangerous to a certain point. But I felt like shock because I felt like why did I have to become a labor and delivery nurse and go to school for four years and then have at least a year of training where I feel like barely comfortable enough to understand basic labor and delivery - like pathophysiology and outcomes - when this should be common knowledge available to all women? And I feel like there's a lot of - like gatekeeping in the field of obstetrics in a way. [Sharilyn: Mmm] And that kind of honestly begins like with the lack of sex education that we have as the general public.

Cady Moore (35:07)

I was just going to say, was like, it's for the same reason that like literal doctors don't get sex education.[MJ: Mhm] Like one of my pie in the sky dreams is to do a sex education class for residents at UC Davis Medical Center here in Sacramento, because I know that they're not getting sex ed. And I'm like, what?

MJ (35:25)

It's mind blowing, right? And they do like - OB-GYNs are very clinical. And I will tell you something, a lot of them are doctors that wanted to be surgery doctors, like surgeons. I don't know why I said surgery doctors. I'm obviously so tired. 

[Laughter]

Cady Moore (35:40)

Hmm because you had a long ass day girl [MJ: I’ve had such a long day] and a long ass month

Sharilyn Wester (35:44)

You're still in dumbing it down for us mode and that's okay.

[Laughter]

“So they're doctors and they cut people.”  Cady and I are like, “yeah, yeah.”

MJ (35:57)

But this is the problem is that they don't have the passion for women's health that people who go into OB-GYN for the sake of improving outcomes and health for women or people with like reproductive organs that are female presenting because they couldn't get like high enough scores on their board exams to become surgeons. This was the best next option because guess what they get to do? GYN surgeries. And so they're more interested in doing the GYN surgeries and they could give less of a crap about actually delivering babies and taking care of these laboring and postpartum patients. Like it's just part of the deal that comes with it. And their burnout is insane. [Cady: Mmh] The rate of obstetricians who are applying for residency in the field is rapidly declining. And among those residents, most of them aren't applying, a lot of them - excuse me- a lot less of them are applying to in states where abortion access is limited because they're not being trained on how to provide abortions. Like, we're creating these like maternal healthcare deserts that are affecting entire families and it's a real problem.

Cady Moore (37:05)

I pulled up - because I was literally-  so I am hosting Sex Ed Trivia January 20th, which I think will be shortly after this comes out. It is not an anti-inauguration event, but it's not not an anti-inauguration event, and it is an abortion fundraiser. [MJ: I love that. That's great.] And so I was working on questions and I decided to take a section out because I was like, this is too much, but I have the stats in front of me.

Cady Moore (37:37)

The United States has the highest mortality rate of any high income country at 23.8 deaths per 100,000 live births. And the next highest country is France at 8.7. So like it is three times higher. [MJ: It’s staggering] And the maternal mortality rate is more than double that for black women in the United States. And the states with the highest maternal mortality rates are all states that do not have abortion access protected or don't have access at all. And it's like, mean, it adds up, but it's more - you just see the way that the people with uteruses in these areas are just getting completely fucked. [MJ: Yeah] And it's really scary. [MJ: The lack of access to care.] And I know that you, that's something that's really important to you. And anybody who follows you on social media knows that you are deeply passionate about abortion care and abortion access. What are the conversations that you're having with your coworkers and with people in the field? Like, what is the L &D perspective on abortion access?

MJ (38:52)

Yeah, that's interesting that bring that up because I feel like we kind of exist in a little bubble in California. [Cady: Mhm] And for the most part, we I feel like the nurses I've interacted with have been on the same page as me where we want it protected. We are actually abortion providers and not in the traditional sense that we work at abortion clinics, but we provide abortions. I've had patients come in at 18 weeks and there's no fetal heart rate and guess what we have to do? We have to do a D&E or a D&C or we help with a medication abortion

Cady Moore (39:30)

DNE or dilation and evacuation and DNC dilation and cure-a-taj are medical procedures used to end a pregnancy typically performed in the second trimester. So after the first 13 weeks of pregnancy, and in cases of miscarriage. In these procedures, the cervix is dilated. So it's opened up using medication or small rods or laminaria which allows access to the uterus at which point specialized medical instruments like suction devices, forceps, or curettes, which is where “curettage” comes from, are used to remove tissue from the uterus.

MJ (40:06)

because otherwise that dead fetus unfortunately becomes a big risk for sepsis, which is one of the biggest maternal mortality rate causes in the United States. And I mean, we've heard all these stories online already about women who are being denied care and are, you know bleeding in the ER and there's nothing we can do because his passes are in gestational age. But I don't know, I haven't thought twice about it when those patients come in. I'm just like, okay, yeah, we got to get this done. And I guess I  have interacted with a few nurses as well who have opposing views. It's interesting because it just feels really misaligned with our entire profession. We take - 

Sharilyn Wester (40:52)

And unethical.

MJ (40:53)

It's super unethical. literally goes against the nursing code of ethics. We're supposed to be, we're supposed to be advocates for policy change that creates better outcomes for populations that we take care of. We're supposed to be vocal about these issues. And a lot of people are just putting their hands up and just being, you know, silent on the issue and going with whatever the status quo is. And I think that's happening more in other States, you know, than California, but anecdotally I have been fortunate enough to interact more with peers who do see similarly that -  then - similar - Wow. My brain is fried you guys -

Cady Moore (41:24)

You're doing so great and we're gonna get to the sillies very soon.

Sharilyn Wester (41:24)

You're fine.

Cady Moore (41:32)

Your voice is so important and we, yeah, we love you and your voice, we're just glad you're here [MJ: Aw thanks, I love you guys] Don't you, don't you -  our listeners are all really nice, huh? We're all really nice and we don't make fun of anyone for stumbling over their words ever, right guys? 

Sharilyn Wester (41:47)

And they're so hot.

Cady Moore (41:48)

yeah, also that, yeah, super hot for sure.

[Laughter]

Cady Moore (41:54)

Thank you Sharilyn, always coming in to remind us how hot and gay we are.

Sharilyn Wester (41:57)

That's all I had to add.

[Laughter]

MJ (42:02)

I want to circle back really quickly to the - 

Cady Moore (42:03)

Yeah, yeah, I feel like - I redirected before you were done. So yes, please circle back.

Sharilyn Wester (41:59)

We tangent in on the tangent.

MJ (41:59)

No, you're good. I can tangent forever. I want to circle back to the comment about midwives, because a lot of people are on a similar sentiment that midwives are this bridge to this gap in maternal care in our country that could solve a lot of these problems. And it's because they have that one job, Their job is to deliver babies, and they want to do so safely, and they're very passionate about it, and there's a lot of really cool science that's coming out of like the midwifery field right now. For example, if you guys are ever curious, I would look up like - spinning babies is something that is like a new technique [Sharilyn: Yep, I’m familiar]  that's up and coming in labor and delivery [Sharilyn: For breech babies, yeah]. And it's not, no, that's an external cephalic version.

MJ (42:52)

Yeah, spinning babies is all about getting babies in the right position for delivery so that they don't get like stuck and then you end up having to go back for a C-section or something. [Sharilyn: Yes] Really talented midwives and labor and delivery nurses can kind of gauge where the baby's positioned at. And I've definitely gone and done cervical exams where I'm like, oh, that baby's asynclytic, like it's not coming down the right way. And you're like, okay, based on where like the little font nails on top of the head are, is it facing left, right, like up? Sometimes you can figure it out, sometimes you can't. But there are certain maneuvers we can do throughout labor to kind of help the baby come down. It doesn't always work.

Cady Moore (43:30)

That’s so cool. I was born with a cone head because of how long my mom was in labor with me and then they eventually had to cut me out. And I'm like, oh, they could have just, they should go just given me a spin, 

MJ (43:38)

Aaaw, they could have. there are some doctors who are good at it and there some who are not. And not all nurses are trained in this, but - 

[Insert Cady’s definition]

Cady Moore (43:49)

Spinning Babies is a set of methods focused on body balancing and physiological support to help laboring people and their babies work together for smoother births. A clinical trial found that after nurses at a hospital received Spinning Babies training, the caesarian rate dropped from 27% to just 14 % for first time pregnancies with full term single baby vaginal births, what's known as NTSV births. That is a huge shift. And it's not just about numbers. Nurses who completed the training reported feeling more confident supporting laboring mothers and helping babies descend without relying on intervention. The study also reviewed caesarean rates for individual nurses over the year before the training and found a consistent lasting improvement post-workshop. So if you're curious to learn more, you can check out spinningbabies.com.

MJ (44:34)

But one of my favorite positions that we have to be very careful when we chart is called flying cowgirl. And I've definitely almost charted [laughs] reverse cowgirl several times and I'm sitting there like, nope, flying, not reverse.

Cady Moore (44:05)

Also who the fuck named it that? Who named it flying cowgirl? Didn't they know what they were doing?

MJ (45:08)

No, okay. I'll describe the position to you really quickly.

Cady Moore (45:12)

Yeah, actually explain it to me please. Actually can you demonstrate? I'm just kidding. Don't demonstrate.

MJ (45:13)

I can, I can! 

Cady Moore (45:17)

[Laughter] Oh yeah we’re gonna post it - join our Patreon and you'll be able to see MJ do the flying cowgirl. All right, show us. Yes.

MJ (45:21)

This is it for Patreon and not OnlyFans. Okay, so essentially…

[Laughter]

Cady Moore (45:26)

They're the same thing, it's fine.

MJ (45:28)

Imagine I'm laying on my side, right? So I'm laying on my side and then have you seen the peanut balls? It's literally shaped like a peanut. Yeah. [Sharilyn: Yep, I loved the peanut ball in both my labors.] Love the peanut ball. Love the peanut ball. And it doesn't even do much. It's just all about how you actually use it to do different positions throughout labor. 

Cady Moore (45:45)

Just like a penis. [MJ: Exactly, exactly]. It doesn't really do much, it's just about how you use it.

MJ (45:53)A

A lot of the positions that we deliver babysitter, the same ones that people get impregnated in. So.

[Laughter]

Cady Moore (45:58)

Hot, we love to see it. Full circle. Mm-hmm.

MJ (45:00)

It's true. All right. So imagine like the peanut balls between my legs, right? And I'm laying on my side. So then you're going to be like with your knees bent back and it's almost like you're like on the like cow like bucking. [Cady: Oh so you do look like - okay, I get it.] 

Yeah. Yeah. Your legs are super far back and that just opens like the pelvic inlet in a different way. So yeah, it's really cool. So all of that to say that the midwives are all learning these really cool new techniques and they're really knowledgeable in just normal, regular labor topics. Now when like things start to go south, they're not adequately trained to deal with severely preeclampsic patients or laboring patients who have a history of like severe postpartum hemorrhage, who are at higher risk of having like a severe postpartum hemorrhage, high risk- just like high risk obstetric stuff, people with heart conditions- things like that, usually they have to be transferred to a higher level of care. 

MJ (46:58)

But for like normal regular labor, they're super passionate about it and they - like it shows in the way that they interact with their patients and they’re nurses. Like I hate to say it, don't like facilitating this like doctor versus nurse conflict that exists because there is this weird like power imbalance even though doctors are not bosses to nurses, they are our coworkers, there's still this weird power dynamic because they're putting in all the orders. And so it's our job to be like advocates for the patients and say, hey, I think that she needs this, can I get this order? And if you're working with a nice doctor, they won't push back, but a lot of them will. 

MJ (47:40)

And they'll just say, I put that order in, so this is what I want you to do. But that's why I think it's important to explore options. If a midwife is an option for you and if it's something that your insurance will cover and you can afford, I highly recommend looking into it. [Sharilyn: Absolutely] I get skeptical sometimes with birth centers because we've had really awful transfers from them sometimes, but my sister [Sharilyn: Yeah] had a really great experience with her delivery at a birth center. And so, I mean, [Cady: So just do your research is what it sounds like.

Yeah, do your research, do your - the other thing is a lot of OBs work insane hours. Right? They're like in the clinic from eight to five, and then they have a 24 to 48 hour call shift in the hospital. So you can like have this OB that you've been seeing for your entire pregnancy and there's no guarantee that they're going to be there at your delivery. It could be one of their partners or it could be a laborist who works for a group that's contracted by the hospital. So that's something to consider as well. It's-  it's kind of sucks. 

Cady Moore (48:37)

That scares the, that scares the shit out of me.

MJ (48:40 )

I feel like I would want to know who is delivering me. And usually you can't guarantee who's going to deliver you, even if you hire a private doc, because emergencies happen. And sometimes they're 10 minutes away from the hospital and the baby has to come now. So.

Cady Moore (48:55)

Let’s take a quick sponsor break, because we haven't taken one yet. Nobody has been able to - you have not been able to pause your podcast to go pee this whole time. I'm so sorry. [Laughter ] I know. So we're gonna take a very quick break, and then we're gonna come right back.

[Instrumental music]

Cady Moore (49:19)

All right, welcome back everyone. Sharilyn, did you have a final question for our girl MJ?

Sharilyn Wester (49:25)

One thing that we talked about actually in our episode with Jill was about how media literacy and misinformation and disinformation is so accessible online and in spaces like TikTok and Instagram. Do you have any content creators within the LND field or within nursing who you know have really good information or good resources for information? For anyone interested in learning more about L &D or the nursing field and what kind of things you do.

MJ (49:54)

Yes, this is a great question actually, because I thought about this earlier and I was like, oh, there's so many good accounts that I could recommend. So I can definitely send them to you and you guys if you want to link them in the show notes. But one I can think of off the top of my head is Dr. Jen Gunter. She's really good. She is very straightforward. [Cady: The vagina Bible. Love the vagina Bible.] Yes, the Vagina Vival. I love her. She does a lot of really good debunking of misinformation online.

Sharilyn Wester (50:21)

Yeah.

MJ (50:22)

On the labor side, if you're wanting to know more about L &D nursing itself, it might feel slightly less accessible to the general public because it's really like directed towards educating L &D nurses. But this account is my favorite account that I have used to educate myself. And it's called Bundle Birth Nurses. And they share a lot of really good evidence. And they're really trying to empower nurses to make a difference for each patient in helping them have a less traumatic birth experience. And I feel like they're making huge waves in the L &D field right now. I don't know a single L &D nurse who doesn't know about this account and the educating that they're doing [Sharilyn: I love that] and their passion for physiologic birth. So they're really great.

MJ (51:10)

And then TikTok creators I really like. I love Jennifer Hamilton, I think it's her name. You guys might have seen her. She's really funny and she shares these really funny anecdotes, but she also debunks a lot of misinformation about pregnancy and labor and postpartum stuff in a very accessible and… in a way that doesn't shame people either. She's just so like - anyone would want her to be your labor nurse. [Sharilyn: Absolutely] I feel like I would want her to be my labor nurse. So she's great. I'll definitely send those over to you after this.

Sharilyn Wester (51:46)

Yes, and of course you as well, @uterusnurse

Cady Moore (51:47)

Yeah, yes, shout yourself out. What's your handle?

MJ (51:54)

I'm like @uterusnurse. I'm super shadow banned because I don't shut up about abortion, but maybe I can do something to change that.

Cady Moore (51:55)

Mmm. Mmm. I'll teach you how to not be shadow banned. I got you. I got you.

MJ (52:02)

It's my fault. I started the account when I was in nursing school just to kind of document my journey and it was really geared at nursing students and the more political I got, which we’re supposed to be political because nursing is political - The more followers I've lost and the less viewers I've had on my post. So it is what it is, but I'll keep shouting into the void.

Sharilyn Wester (52:32)

Nursing is political, I like that.

MJ (52:36)

Nursing is political. Yeah, absolutely. There's an episode name right there, let me tell ya. No, thank you so much for sharing. I think it's really important that people have access to good quality content and some good information coming from reliable sources.

Sharilyn Wester (52:49)

Yes, it is.

Cady Moore (52:50)

All right, so MJ, as someone who has not had a baby or delivered a baby, can you tell us what an APGAR score is?

MJ (52:57)

Yes, that's a great question. So an APGAR score is how we assess the baby at the first minute of life. So we look to see if the baby is vigorous, like so if baby's moving, crying, if they have good tone, if they - what their color is, how their respiratory effort is. We typically do the first minute and then the five-minute  APGARs for every baby. If the one-minute APGAR score is low, and it can go up to 10, so I believe usually if it's - it depends on the hospital policy - but usually if it's like six or below, we'll do a 10-minute apgar too. And if it's really low, it starts this cascade. We'll do like the one, the five, the seven, the 10, and then we'll just keep doing it. 

MJ (53:52)

At that point, if the baby's struggling that much, usually there's a NICU team that's taken over and I let them kind of do their thing. Yeah, it's just how we assess the baby when it's born. It's kind of, I think people don't like this very much either because baby comes out and we start drying and stimulating and it can look pretty violent, but they really need a lot of stimulus when they're born. 

Sharilyn Wester (54:00)

They need to wake them up a little bit.

MJ (54:03)

Yeah, you gotta wake them up. They gotta wake up.

Cady Moore (54:04)

They just came out of this warm, juicy cocoon and they're like, what is happening?

MJ (54:09)

They were in this yummy little hot tub and their lungs were full of fluid and now they have to use them and get the fluid out and breathe air. And so we like to piss them off and rub their little feet and make sure that they cry it all out.

Cady Moore (54:25)

So at your most hungover, what would your APGAR score be?

MJ (54:27)

[Laughs]

Cady Moore (54:31)

That was a Sharilyn question, that's why we were giggling to ourselves when you were describing it.

MJ (54:34)

My most hungover. man. I was really... 

Sharilyn Wester (54:52)

What was your appearance pulse Grimace activity respiration?

MJ (54:54)

Dude, like a two.

[Laughter]

Cady Moore (54:58)

So you would definitely have to do a five minute APGAR score.

MJ (54:03)

I - the five, the seven, the ten, the whole shebang, I'm gonna need a NICU team to resuscitate me, [laughter] because I'm just a hungover a little baby.

Sharilyn Wester (55:13)

Yeah, you're just a floppy baby.

[Laughter] 

MJ (55:17)

I love that

Sharilyn Wester (55:18)

That's the episode name. I'm just a hungover little baby. [Laughter] Okay. 

Cady Moore (55:28)

Um ok, followup v[laughter] you go Sharilyn

Sharilyn Wester (55:31)

Ok This is one of our silly questions, which is a follow-up, which I know Cady had texted you earlier to confirm that you have read ACOTAR. And for those who haven't, we're talking about A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Mass. [MJ: [laughter] Yes] What ACOTAR court would you be a part of and why? - 

MJ (55:46)

Night court! [Sharilyn: There we go] Because I'm night shift.

[Laughter]

Cady Moore (55:50)

Yeah, that, yes, that was so easy. That was so quick. We love it. We love it. I have another healthcare related silly question [MJ: I love it] because Sharilyn and I were talking about… [Laughs] this is insensitive, but I don't know, mean, whatever. You guys that listen to this podcast, you know who we are. We were talking about a grippy sock vacation. What color hospital grippy socks are your favorite?

MJ (56:15)

I hate them all, probably the blue ones.[Cady: You like the blue ones?] I like the blue ones, yeah.

Cady Moore (56:20)

Okay, cool. I learned that there aren't pink ones today and I was really upset about it. There aren't pink ones.

MJ (56:24)

Yeah, I don't like that either. Usually they'll have yellow ones for the patients that are like deemed to be a fall risk. So we know that they are a fall risk.[Cady: Oooh!]  Like the yellow socks are pretty universal. But then there's like extra large socks that are gray and then small socks that are like sky blue. It's all quite boring - [Sharilyn: I had some beige ones.] I would bring my own grippy socks to my grippy sock vacation.

Cady Moore (56:52)

That’s what - Sharilyn and I were just saying, that we should, that we should - we'll get cute grippy socks and they'll be so cute.

MJ (56:55)

Yes, I have like a collection of Pilates socks at this point, so I'll just be like, someone bring me my Pilates socks, please.

Sharilyn Wester (57:02)

Mm-hmm.

Cady Moore (57:02)

The ones that have the peach on the side that say “eat it” [Sharilyn laughs: Yesa!] are my favorite Pilates grippy socks.

Sharilyn Wester (57:11)

Omy gosh, those are so good. Okay. What have you read for fun recently and what are your all time favorite fun reads? Do you have any like series that you go back to when you're just needing some brain rot after like- after swinging babies all day and APGARing and, and peanut balling [MJ: Yeah, I'm-] and reverse cowgirl flying in the sky?

[Laughter]

MJ (57:39)

Flying cowgirl. I'm gonna have to show you guys my badge after this, because it's really funny. I have a little vagina pin on it - [Cady: I almost did a spit take] and the top of it is like the flying peanut- it's a peanut ball with little wings on it and a cowgirl hat. I'll show you.

[Laugher]

Cady Moore (57:56)

Okay, wait, that's so cute. Yeah, I wanna see it. 

Sharilyn Wester (58:01)

That's incredible.

Cady Moore (58:03)

Ok  I was actually gonna ask and then I realized like you weren't gonna have it accessible to show it to us, but…

MJ (58:07)

No, it's somewhere in a box, but I'm actually heavily into the Sarah J. Maas universe right now. I just finished Assassin's Blade, so I'm making my way through Throne of Glass. It's changing my life. I don't think I'm ever going to be able to enjoy a book series again as much as this.

Sharilyn Wester (58:22)

Nope.

Cady Moore (58:23)

That's, yes, that's true. When you finish Throne of Glass, you're done. You're ruined for literally anything else ever.

MJ (58:28)

I thought ACOTAR ruined me- I think this might be it. [Sharilyn: It’s so good]Although, the guy I'm dating just bought me Fourth Wing for Christmas, so I'm looking forward to reading that.

Cady Moore (58:38)

Fourth wing is definitely really good.

Sharilyn Wester (58:37)

And that's good, because the new one comes out this month in that series.

Cady Moore (58:41)

In like two weeks, baby.

MJ (58:42)

Yeah, I know it's all over book talk. Everyone's freaking out.

Sharilyn Wester (58:46)

Yeah. I will say, Fourth Wing is definitely a fun, silly departure from Throne of Glass. If you haven't read Throne of Glass [MJ: Mm-hmm], Fourth Wing might seem kind of heavy and dark to you, but just wait till you get your training wheels off, babies. Join us.

MJ (58:54)

Oh boy. I mean, I'm emotionally devastated after Assassin's Blade, but….woof. 

Cady Moore (59:00)

Oh girl, you wait.

Sharilyn Wester (59:01)

Just you wait.

MJ (59:04)

[Laughs] Oh no!

Cady Moore (59:06)

But like, in the best way, [MJ: Yeah yeah] who doesn't want their guts and their heart ripped out by a book?

MJ (59:11)

Yeah, it's true. They're so good.

Cady Moore (59:13)

If you're not heaving sobs, then what's the point?

MJ (59:15)

Yeah, I-

Cady Moore (59:16)

You're like, I don't know, maybe I don't wanna read this.

MJ (59:18)

No, I do. [Laughter] I guess, yeah, I keep going back to like “Romantacy” books. I haven't reread any yet, but I would like to do the audiobook for ACOTAR I've heard it's really good. The graphic audiobook. [Sharilyn and Cady together: The dramatized one?] Yeah, yeah.

Sharilyn Wester (59:38)

Oh my god! I just got it… Ok so I own all ACOTAR books in - like I own the physical copies. I own the digital copies on iBook. I have the audio books and now I'm going through and re-buying the dramatized audios. [MJ: Mm-hm] They are so good. It's like watching a movie in your head. It's actually, they are very, like very well executed and. Yeah, for anyone who sometimes likes to listen but sometimes gets a bit distracted, go graphic audio. It will help your ADHD brain because you're getting so much stim and it's a lot easier to lock in.

MJ (1:00:11)

Love that.

Cady Moore (1:00:12)

I actually couldn't- I couldn't read, like I tried reading Fourth Wing multiple times and I don't like first person present tense. I had to look up what the tense was. Like literally the other day I was like, I don't know what the grammar name for this is, but it's first person present tense. I don't like that style of writing and I listened to the dramatized audio and that is also what taught me that I like audio porn.

[Laughter]

Sharilyn Wester (1:00:37)

Yes, get on it Quinn and Dipsy.

Cady Moore (1:00:36)

It was a great- I have a shit-eating grin, I realize you can't see it, but you could hear it. I was like, this is really hot. I'm, okay. I'm in. I'm in.

MJ (1:00:46)

I love that. Have you ever listened to audio porn with your partner?

Cady Moore (1:00:49)

No, not yet - Actually, yes! I've listened to Fourth Wing [laughs] because I texted my partner and I was like, “um can I play this part of my book for you?” [laughs] But like, I haven't intentionally like sat down. It sounds like you have, though.

MJ (1:01:11)

Maybe, allegedly. 

Cady Moore (1:01:14)

Do you want, okay. Sounds like you don't want to spill the tea, so I won't force it.

MJ (1:01:18)

No, no, no. I have and it was like kind of awkward, but then it led me into reading an excerpt from A Court of Silver Flames [Cady: Ooooh] to my partner. [Cady: Hot] Highly recommend. We had a good time.

Cady Moore (1:01:31)

Yes, I'm - I have a good idea of what scene you're specifically talking about. And that is a spicy meatball right there. 

MJ (1:01:38)

Thank God I'm shadow banned.

Cady Moore (1:01:41)

All right. So quick fuck, marry, kill. And then and then we'll let you go because this is another Sharilyn question that I think is really good. Fuck, marry, kill: Enemies to lovers, forced proximity, Destiny / Fated Mates.

MJ (1:01:55)

Okay. Fuck enemies to lovers.

Sharilyn Wester (1:01:59)

That's hot.

Cady Moore (1:01:59)

Yeah, yeah.

MJ (1:02:01)

Wait no…. Yeah… oh - that's so hard, you guys. I love enemies to lovers. That might be - [Sharilyn: I do too]  But is it sustainable? Is it marriage material? No. So I'm keeping that answer. Fuck enemies to lovers… Kill forced proximity… and then marry fated partners.

Cady Moore (1:02:23)

This was, that was the correct answer. It's true.

Sharilyn Wester (1:02:27)

One point I really love about the whole enemies to lovers thing and like the appeal is that it's someone who sees you at your absolute worst at first and then grows to love you even with that knowledge.

MJ (1:02:34)

God, you're right, maybe... I know.

Cady Moore (1:02:38)

I'm a messy bitch. [MJ: I know] If you don't love me at my messy - no I'm just kidding, I hate them.

MJ (1:02:38)

I actually have been thinking about this a lot lately though because I've like been struggling a little bit [Sharilyn: Yeah] with conflict and this new partnership that I'm entering into and I'm like you really need to be able to have conflict in a very- like healthy way for a relationship to be sustainable.

Cady Moore (1:03:05)

Dude, it's so true. If you can't fight, if you can't fight well...

Sharilyn Wester (1:03:07)

Mm-hmm. Because it's gonna happen.

MJ (1:03:10)

So maybe you… yeah, maybe you do marry the enemies to lovers, because that person loved you at your worst.

Sharilyn Wester (1:03:16)

Absolutely. And also the sex is just really hot.

Cady Moore (1:03:19)

Yeah, I think the sex in both is really great and here's the thing, I'm poly so I actually don't have to choose.

MJ (1:03:27)

Love that for you.

Cady Moore (1:03:27)

I wanna fuck both and marry both.

Sharilyn Wester (1:03:33)

I'm gonna fuck my enemies - no I'm gonna marry my enemies.

Cady Moore (1:03:24)

And then I'm gonna marry them and then I'm gonna fuck my mate. Oh my God.

Sharilyn Wester (1:03:39)

I'm gonna find my biggest op and marry them. You know who you are. [Cady: Luteal phase] I know you're listening. Luteal phase.

MJ (1:03:42)

I'm dead. Wait, you guys, I just realized-

Cady Moore (1:03:46)

I’m going to make a comic book villain called Luteal Phase… Sorry, I think that's funny. [MJ: I love that - that’s funny]  It's fine. Just me. Just-  that's okay.

Sharilyn Wester (1:03:53)

That was such a sex educator joke.

Cady Moore (1:03:55)

I know as soon as I said it I was like, oh, this is just you girl. Thanks.

MJ (1:03:55)

I liked it. I liked it. I liked it. I think that's so funny.

Cady Moore (1:04:02)

All right, so thank you so much, MJ for sharing your stories and your insights. And it sounds like we're gonna be having you back on the pod for at least another episode. We're super excited about that. [Sharilyn: Yes]We're super grateful for the education that you're doing, even if you are shadowbanned fuck it. Yeah, thank you so much.

MJ (1:04:20)

Thank you guys for having me. Sorry, my brain is all over the place today. I feel like obviously very passionate about these topics and I could talk about them forever. So I look forward to the next episode we do together.

Sharilyn Wester (1:04:33)

Yes, and everyone you can go follow her @uterusnurse at Instagram and TikTok. You have a different handle, don't you?

MJ (1:04:35)

I think I still have my personal handle, but yeah, feel free to follow me. I've popped off about reproductive health stuff on there before. It's @mjhettie

Sharilyn Wester (1:04:50)

Amazing and we'll make sure to write down some of those recs for other L &D healthcare folks who give reliable information in the show notes.

Cady Moore (1:05:01)

Absolutely. And if you want to keep the conversation going, you can find us on Instagram @kneedeeppodcast. You can send us your thoughts, stories, questions. We'd love to hear from you. You can also send listener questions to the Instagram or our email, kneedeeppodcastmailbag@gmail.com. And if this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend, leave a review, shout us out. Every little bit helps. Oh and we are launching our Patreon! So if you want to see MJ do the flying cowgirl.

You can find us on Patreon, which will also be in the show notes.

Sharilyn Wester (1:05:33)

Absolutely. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold, do your reverse flying cowgirl and remember your voice matters, your body is yours and you have the right to make decisions that are best for you.

MJ (1:05:39)

[Laughs] Oh my God.

Cady Moore (1:05:41)

Hell yeah, thanks for tuning in everyone. Have a - [audio cuts out]